I agree on the reference to Lei from Tekken, even though I've never really used him at all. Hwaorang is my kind of fighter. Lots of crazy kicking combinations just like in my sparring.

I OWN U ALL WITH KING!!

they probly just didnt know what to put in at the end of the kata so they just chucked sumthin in

It looks funky but and is the most, kind of, out of style type of thing, like it dosent look like it'd be in GKR's style, that ive seen so far... that and the sick 360 head stomp in empi

...King isn't that great. Seriously.

it isnt...? naughty sensei, given me crap about its a jump to head crush... not like it matters i don need to know it for bloody ages

LMAO, king is THE best in the game when u get insanly good with him, and if u use hworang uve instantly lost anyway coz king can reverse any kicks but anyway this is karate forum enuff of tekken shananigans

LOL thats a cracker.

Ever been hit by someone holding their hands like a chicken or whatever you want to call it?

You can strike with the back of the wrists. Kinda hurts your wrist joint to make the movement fast like at the end of sanseru though.

Maybe your painting a fence?

As there seems to be a lot of thread resurecting lately....
(appologies in advance for spelling)



When I was training a few years ago, niko ashi dachi was a little like previously described, but with only about 1 % of weight on the front foot. Our sensei would walk around, and tap the toes, to check our foot would swing, thereby showing a lack of pressure on that foot.

Something I've also noticed is that with bassai dai, when you've done the first few kokutsu dachi's, and do the change into zen kutsu dachi, you now step across, to put the hands over the knee. We never used to do the step. I've noticed a few other things, too, but they come to mind right now...

Any ideas why the changes??

That hand shape is koken (sp?), as in kata tenshoa - a wonderfully versatile way to block and strike, either with the back of the wrist (in a clubbing motion) or the bunched up fingers (as if pecking). Comes from White Crane AFAIK, which is where Goju has it's roots. Looks funny to some, but ask someone to "peck" you and you'll soon stop laughing! The hand shape allows a real whipping motion which generated alot of power.

I'd go along with the joint lock application, especially as you're dropping from sanchin to shiko and turning 270 degrees as you do.

BTW, koken is what Uma used in Kill Bill 2 to pluck out the eye...."My Crane defeat your Tiger!"

Never been hit by the back of the wrist, but I have the rather dubious honour of being able to say I was pecked by a sandan.

"Joint lock application" is a wonderful term It's sufficiently vague that it doesn't clearly answer a question but still makes one seem wise and knowledgeable. Reading back through some other posts and other fora there have been different locks espoused for this sequence.

Neko ashi dachi.. I don't understand the emphasis on "it should be like this and this". When you move into the stance the positioning does not really allow for too much weight to be placed on the front foot, but neither do you really have all your weight on the back foot?

Bassai Dai.. this change (the reinforced kake uke) makes it look a little more like the Shotokan version.


Mick

[tangent]

Why reinforce a block and take an arm out of the equation?
Would you seriously reinforce a block like that anyway??

[/tangent]

Does it matter? The Shotokan version is some ways quite different when it comes to that sequence than e.g. the ShitoRyu version. Apart from the Shotokan version doing a right hand kake uke and ShitoRyu version using the left hand without the "reinforcement".

The Shotokan version can be applied to being a nikkyo from a wrist grab, though I suppose you could do that from the ShitoRyu version also. But it lends itself to other functions as well - simply the fact of the kake uke being the top half of a mawashi uke offers numerous possibilities...


Mick

So they're changing things back from what kancho changed them to??

Edit: Oops i was on a different page when i replied , i was refering to the Bassai Dai kake uke

.... Dammit...

Damn, you sussed me! Seriously, I wasn't suggesting I was all wise and knowledgable, cos I ain't, but the sequence there does suggest to me that some sort of lock is going on.

Looking at it slightly differently, could it be a throw? After the double punch, the hands come together (grabbing?) and the left leg sweeps around as you drop into shiko (a leg sweep?). The end position could simply be a guard position, in shiko because your opponent would now be on the floor.(?)

Just an idea.....

Thanks mick.

Any idea WHY they want it to look like the shotokan version? If GKR wants to change things to 'their' style (even if it is correct/wrong), why dont they leave it like that, and no change back???

It is one thing for an instructor to change a kata when they know what they're doing (which rarely is the case anyway) and when they have the credibility to do so without inviting the disdain of their peers, but it is something else altogether when you change a kata to 'make it your own style' without knowing what you're doing or when you don't have a reputation which would lead to acceptance by others.

Why is acceptance important? Well it's not really, for the instructor, but any sneers levied at them will also come to be directed at the students - tarred with the same brush, company you keep etc.


Mick

Anyone seen kancho's kata?

That irritated me when I saw it.. gives the impression that all katas really are is long combinations.

I've always wanted someone to ask him to demonstrate the bunkai for it Just to see what his answer is...


Mick

Ive seen it, and the basics video as well. I have to say I'm surprised at what I saw for a man of his purported experience.

Yup. Even for a nidan..

Mick the bunkai is there. That elbow strike? Its an elbow strike.

The punch.. thats a punch. Pretty simple.. im sure with enough time he could drum it into your skull....

But where are the multiple attackers?


Anon

Multiple attackers?

There the ones dancing around in the background (ala-Jackie Chan films) pretending to be a threat, before attacking kanch-dude with their expossed jaws and or groins.

I do not want to know about exposed groins.... of course it depends... ah better not go there


Mick

Sorry that should have been exposed groin guards.

The big blokes all where the extra extra gigantic sized groin guards (over there gi of course, makes them look especially pretty in kumite) to make up for.... stuff

Oh I wasn't suggesting that you were suggesting that at all



At the end of Sanseru:
Why is there a 270º turn? Or rather, why is it 270º? Is that simply to finish facing the front? Are we reading too much into it?

Turning ourselves to the right as we do, it allows for capturing a right-handed attack and drawing it into an armbar across the chest through turning. It also allows for an interception (pre-empting a strike) and twisting the attacker's body through the turn into a takedown. It also allows for a throw and finish with an armbar. It also allows for receiving a technique and applying a jointlock. It also allows...


Mick

I've only had 6 months of goju....steady on! I'm getting there though...slowly but surely.

Don't read too much into what I've written.

Hmm, maybe this is what Boz meant about applications - that you can find so many things which are viable that you can get lost in them.


Mick

why cant the finishing move just be??????

Yeah, I think we're all reading too much into it. It was just a cheap ploy to face the front again, and they added a 'cool' pose to mask it. And anyway, who can resist a 'cool' pose?

And we come full circle back to the 'super-giant wedgie'


Mick

Told ya'.

-- K

The only reason I don't really buy explanations of the final pose being a stand-along move is because we could find applications for every single move of any given kata. If that was the case, why not invent a kata which is just a collection of techniques? Oh wait, somebody already did...


Mick

I know this is a really old thread, but I was bored and just stumbled accross it.

The chicken block/pose at the end of sanseru at gkr is very different to the goju way that I was taught. At gkr from what I remember you kind of spin around and bring your hands up into the chicken pose.

The way we do it is: We spin around just the same but the hands whipp around at the same time and kind of sweep down and up again into the pose. I asked Hanshi about this, he said the pose is called Inu No Kamae, it is the posture of a dog. He described the action of being like a wave crashing on the beach.

One application that he gave me was if somebody has hold of both of your wrists, you just perform the action of a wave crashing on the beach and it breaks their grip. It works a treat.

I have also been shown another application by Shihan which involved a block then a strike with the back of the wrist.

The strike is called Kakuto Ate and when you block with this part of the wrist it is called Kakuto Uke. It also seen in Kata Tensho and of coarse in karate kid when he paints the fence and house.

Just thought you might be interested as you didnt seem to get a very good answer when you asked the question before.

Rocket