Anyone want to hazard an opinion on the function of the first few movements in bassai dai? ie moves 2 - 4?

The opening kamae in shotokan schools often has the hands in front of the groin instead of in front of the face. Books I've read suggest (or state) that this posture is "to protect the testicles". Thoughts on that?


Mick

ps I have my own thoughts and opinions on these

We discussed this last night and this opinion was offered:
Attacker grabs wrist being grabbed from front on, both arms raised and hands interlocked to gain strength, then yanked to the left to either: dislodge grabber and follow through with reinforced backfist, or grab attackers wrist and twist their arm into a submission hold.

Its great asking people who are still learning the kata and yet to be told the same old story to describe what the are doing. The interpretations they come up with really get you seeing things differently

Here's a bunkai I posted on another site a little while earlier...

Movement #2: Hands over left shoulder, right knee lifted - I have a seashell. If I listen to it I can hear the sounds of the ocean. While pretending to be a wading bird.

Movement #3: Forward into kosa dachi with reinforced uchi uke - (to person in front) Look! I have a seashell! Wanna listen?

Movement #4: Step back into zenkutsu facing behind with left hand uchi uke - (to person behind) Tada! A seashell!




Mick

I'll have to mention that at class tomorrow night.

lol - we did Bassai dai tonight in senior training and after the first three moves it was all I could do not to crack up laughing!

I guess you would have just blamed me for it if you had?


Mick

I like that um... bunkai. I wonder if I can keep a straight face long enough to explain it on Friday.

Nah, probly not!



Bearette

Friday... Lalor Park? If so, be sure to tell Daniel and Jo who it came from


Mick

Of course! You think I wanna be the only one killed?!

Btw: move #1: Hey look, I found a sea shell!

At least I have stopped giggling now. This bunkai of yours actually gave me the hiccups!

:rolleyes:Mick you really need to get out more

Well, now that half my sensei think I'm nuts, is this thread going to get a serious flavour? Cos I haven't been given any bunkai on Bassai Dai at all, except for the crescent kick to the hand bit. It would be nice to have lots of different bunkai versions for it. These opening moves often cause me trouble - I used to be a baseball pitcher... I have two theoretical bunkai but I ain't gunna give em away if this thread ain't gunna get serious! B)

B

*sigh* ok...

How about for move #2 - #3... parrying a right-hand swing punch while entering and throwing an uppercut?


Mick

Nah - I like the seashell better

I guess you could add a seoinage (shoulder throw) after the strike too.

This would give you a parry-strike-takedown-finish set.


Mick

Hi, actually m#1 comes from a lost martial art practiced in secret by English rugby players. It was recently re-descovired by Johnny Wilkinson and used to great effect when kicking goals.

ROFL!!!!
I'm gonna be thinking that everytime I see him line up (which hopefully wont be too damned often any more )

He does need to tuck his bum in however

Praying hard?

ok forget johnny i still have nightmares about that guy but what a champion he is. so i think seashells will fit the bill perfectly. this block uppercut shoulder throw thing just confuses me, bah it's kata make your owne thing up for it no one will know, and you might even make it make sense.

In a way you're not so far wrong fang. Since there's few who know any applications you'd be unlucky if you found someone who could refute your imaginings


Mick

Resurrecting old threads...
Bassai is currently my grade kata. Going through it last night, sensei asks "any questions?", and actually I have a lot, but haven't thought about answers for a lot of the questions yet, so I only ask "Why does it start with so many blocks?". My ear still hurts from the demonstration of the first reinforced "uchi uke" (wanna see my shell?) which can be used as a strike... ow.
Who says they are all blocks? My sensei do! When we are being taught, they are taught as uchi and soto uke - but they don't have to be these techniques as long as they look like these techniques come grading time.
I would say things like why aren't we taught this when we are taught the kata, but I know that is just the GKR way, and I guess I don't hold it against them as long as I can ask things like this in class and get a reasonable answer. I suppose this is why the bb's move on, and why I will too one day maybe.

its threads like this that have made me more aware of many things...

i was asked a similar question about a certain move in bassai dai. "what is that move for?"

i told this student, "it can be used for...(insert gkrs version of the technique)...but im not too sure if i would use it that way. have a think about what it is you're actually doing. Use someone else 'in the way' if you need to and we'll work something out that works for us"

we ended up spending a fair amount of the rest of the class going through different situation in which we would use those moves and others from that and other katas.

bunkai or applications as the students would use them would easily fill an entire hour and a half class. and it gets them thinking how their own bodies work best in different situations also.

Oh yes. Applications for a single kata sequence can easily fill an entire 1½ hour class.


Mick

Too bad we don't have those sort of classes all the time.

well you could have those sorts of classes all the time

but you wouldnt know the kata or have the boidy mechanics to be able to perform the techniques.

best you have the classes mixed up a little.

basics this week, kata and applications next week, kumite and drills the following week, and maybe physical conditioning and fitness the week after

all you need to do is play around with the format a little and oyu have a variety of classes to do with your students.

The opening "chinese salute" (LOL, great joke) can be a (kotegashi? i believe thats the correct name?) wrist lock. The step down to turn it into a throw? Or I suppose a shoulder barge..

I have just been shown in the last couple of days what the 2nd move looks like in older form of Bassai Dai. Makes it much clearer how to apply it.


Mick

Any chance of talking Boz into a visit to Perth?

(oops, was that my out loud voice?? )

I'm working on it

Boz

Sure. Matt and Boz can limp along together

I will investigate options for this though when a visit becomes possible.


Mick