Hi, I recall hearing about a kata which followed a straight line pattern. Actually its movements were all sideways in iether sumo or horse riding stance. The bunkai was a fight in a long narrow row boat.

Just an incidental thought, could some fight scenes in Jackie Chan movies be the bunkai of kung fu katas?

Hi Zen Warrior,

I believe you are talking about Naifanchi Shodan also known as Naihanchi and Tekki. There are three of them, Shodan, Nidan and Sandan and they are performed in naifanchi dachi or kiba dachi but not in shiko dachi (sumo stance).

The stories about the bunkai being a fight in a long narrow boat, a narrow alley, a paddy field or any other such nonsense is complete bovine excretion. I am making a rather large study of these kata at them moment and they are very important kata, especially in todays world where the old karate is almost lost.

Naifanchi is what is termed a foundation kata of the styles that can trace themselves back to the Te that was developed around Shuri, the Capital of Okinawa. In this kata the lower body is placed under tension and the upper body is trained to perform short sharp movements while being restricted by the stance. Defensive techniques are developed in isolation, i.e. without footwork and body evasion. The 2-person drills from this kata should reflect this.

The applications of Naifanchi Shodan are more obvious when you pivot to the left or right into a fighting stance and middle guard posture. The theme of this kata is using the rear hand to defend and the front hand to attack. As in most kata there is both striking and grappling applications that respond to habitual physical confrontations.

Regards,
Boz

Naifanchi is on my list but I think I have more than enough to work with at the moment.

I think it's (in some ways) unfortunate that I need to work within the grading system and learn kata which I may not need to actually know.


Mick

mmmmmmmmmmm my mate matt gave me up. ok my girls want to start karate again and ozlink is thinking of starting again, guess what matt i'm thinking your class might be the one. get you sedatives out sensei .

It would be good to see you again.
Monday 6-7, 7:15-8:45

dear god! you have to put with him in person too!
:thumbgrin:

Yah, putting up with Fang in person. I think I had a nightmare along those lines not long ago =P

Sadly, he's probably a really great guy and an awesome karateka too.

I'll let you know how it goes....fang....see you tomorrow - special kata class

roflmao...oh sensei can be soooo mean.

I bet he's prolly good at it anyway

I was going through my syllabus last night (yes, I have a syllabus, and a technical manual) and realised that there are nearly 20 kata to be learnt up to shodan.

The problem is not that I couldn't learn them - it would take me probably 6 months at most to work through the list, if that was all I was doing - but that 20 is surely too many (be quiet fang ).

I already know a few, and some others are variations of other kata that I have learnt. My problem at the moment is that there are only a few more that I want to learn. I guess I will be studying those few kata while learning and practicing the many others


Mick

That's certainly a lot of kata. Are there a lot of different techniques involved in that style, or are all the techniques just reused ina different way for the katas as they progress?

It's more a case of Mabuni being a kata collector so I guess the ideology follows that a large number of kata are taught.

There's not a large number of techniques really - no more than any other school.

But these days I feel no great need to learn many more kata. Sure there's a couple more I would like to learn, and perhaps the kata have less changes from the older forms than the GKR forms do, but I have enough practice and study to do just with the kata I have learnt already.

Saifa, for example, could be seen as a catalog for releasing holds and applying a counter.

On the number of techniques though, how many punches do you learn?


Mick

The title of this thread got me thinking,how many Kata do the kids know?.In the 28months with GKR, they have learnt 7 kata, they in my opinion have learnt to perform them well,judging by the medals collected at tourny,(Sam has a gold for every kata up to and including Seiunchin his current tourny kata).I beleive that the key to this sucess was in learning the Bunkai,or our version of it.This enabled the kids to visulise what they were doing.(for tourny kata only)
But how many of those Kata do they realy know? The answer is none, What they have learnt is seven tournament kata .seven kata over 28 months breaks down to 1 kata every 4 months. Yet i know they spent a good year working on Seiunchin,before entering comps with it.(how much practise well, 4 lessons a week,an hour a day at home,and 3 hours every other sunday).
GKR seems to put a lot of emphasis on Kata,for gradings,Why? what is the purpose of Kata?Defence against multiple attackers?,maybe in a make beleive situation .

In Tang Soo Do the kids other style,which they have been attending for around a year now.They have learnt seven Kata,their is nowhere near the same emphasis put on the Kata(sounds ideal for Fang) Generally they learn a kata 2 to 3 weeks before a grading,every grading a new Kata.WHY?are the kata used as a training tool,to watch the students basics in movement,ie correct stances, blocks and punches kicks, in a preconceived multiple attack.Kata is rarley practised,other than shortly before gradings.(p.s the kids triple graded at the first grading,and they have just been taught kata no 7,before any one thinks hell 7 gradings in a year)Whats right,wrong,is there a right or wrong,hell dont ask me,what do i know?
Nigel

I think I may have said previously but anyway, my former style had one form per grade.
Each form contained all the basic techniques required to be tested per the syllabus, and was symmetrical so that teqhnique could be judged on each side. Bunkai did come into it to a degree, but kata was primarily a teaching and a testing tool.
I dont think this is wrong, better or worse. Its just another styles interpretation of what kata is and that its not simply a dance.

I don't see anything really wrong with that, the purpose is to judge technique for grading. I presume this means the kata weren't overly complex?

I find it is usually more difficult to execute good technique when moving than when standing upright - just have to look at the people who have good basics when standing in line punching and blocking but when they starting moving, combinations, kata it all falls apart.


Mick

I'm not sure which category our forms fit into.

The technniques we learn for grading aren't necessarily in the form, and some of the techniques in our form aren't assessed for grading until a future grade.

They are definately used for focus on breathing, flowing movements together, and moving while executing techniques. However, most of the techniques we are graded on are done while moving anyway.

They are used for aesthetic reasons, as there is a bit of a focus on students performing forms for special events, such as Chinese New Year etc.

Oh yeah. At first it is one form per two grades (ie half for first grade, full for second grade), then as you grade higher it is one form per grade with the introduction of weapons (NOT easy).

i'm getting there matt just alot of personal stuff going on at the moment after school holidays i'd say we will be there. kata class cann't wait to see you try and teach me that .

all i'll hear is damn it fang left foot not right man you are thick.

"Oh you mean the Other left..."


Mick