how about we don't do any kata :thumbwink:.

Boz - intriguing, but before commenting can you clarify "effective techniques".  Do you mean just letting them go through the motions without any real focus, or are you refering to self defence applications?

Anything Fang says is bias. He hates kata, and should be pelted with rocks... again.

Anyway, there should be more kata. We shouldn't have to do Saifa twice or Bassai Dai twice. Getting to grade to Red belt simply because you 'know' the kata is stupid. The same goes for Green belt. You should have to know the kata perfectly to grade.

I don't think so.. he is being honest. Unless the purpose and intent of kata is taught alongside the moves then it is simply a martial dance. Way too many people practise kata with no idea of what it is they do. As an exercise routine it can be enjoyable but to the critical thinker with an analytical mind.. it is nonsense!




I'm sorry, I don't agree again. There is simply no benefit to knowing how to mimic your instructor and from memorizing a few dance routines. You don't know the kata until you can apply the moves sensibly.. IMO!

Regards,
Boz

Sorry Boz, but I disagree. Kata is so much more than simple dance and exercise routines. Most of the moves I've learned in kata, I know will be useable in a real-life situation. Every so often kata is demonstrated with the help of a few senseis to show how each move actually works, what it's supposed to do, and what situation it can be used in. It's true that most of the kata we do is used on multiple assailants, but from just about every kata the idea of blocking an attack and then striking the assailant is there.

If you think that Go Kan Ryu kata is dancing, maybe you should head down to your local disco and see how it's really done. I doubt very much kata could flow as well when put up against techno funk beats. =O

As far as I’m concerned, KATA is the “Art” in Martial Art.  If you don’t want to do kata or learn them, there are other styles to do.  Boxing can be great for self-defence, and it’s a skill that you can learn.  However, boxing could never be an art.

# Some people would consider boxing an art though (OK so I'm nitpicking - not a word fang, brodius  )


I agree that there needs to be an understanding of what we do in a kata, but that can be a personal interpretation.  That understanding comes from learning; teaching can only give you some points to focus on. 

# Personal interpretation of kata application can be valid, there's even a name for it.


I strongly believe that kata should be in integral part of grading.  While performing kata, you can show that you can perform techniques while moving around, that you can balance yourself, that you have timing, etc. I can’t think of any better way to show of the skills that you learned. 

# Most schools do require kata demonstration for grading. Some also require bunkai demonstration for grading beyond a certain level.


I don’t believe that you can apply a kata to a real situation, only portions of it in a given situation. 

# The whole kata is not meant to be applied in a real situation. IMO. The sequence you could use would depend on the situation. i.e. response to type of attack.


Just try to make up a kata by combining elements of other katas. 

# When you do a class exercise where YOU have to make up a kata, my recommendation is to do it the opposite way. Instead of cobbling together bits of other kata until you have enough moves for the exercise, instead formulate a number of attack scenarios and play out the responses - this will create the kata for you. Plus you may find it a lot easier to remember when you have to demonstrate your creation.


Try doing First Kata, stepping to the right at the first move, or mirror a kata.  I for my part enjoy kata and hope that one day I will be satisfied and pleased how I perform. :thumbwink:

# Some of the kata are seemingly one-sided. It is a fairly common thought that you ought to practice the mirror-image as well.

me bias brodious i'm shocked you would think that

Hi,  for me a kata is a set sequence of moves depicting a stylized fight or defence against multipule attackers.  Generally in karate styles they start very basic with long forward stance a block or 2 and punches.  Then get progressively more complex with various blocks and strikes as the student learns and masters those techniques.

Personally I think siafa is way above orange/green belt level.  In its original form it was a black belt kata from the goju styles.  Bassai Dia is a brown belt shotokan kata though it is about right for red belt grade.

Oh yeah, on your site, Mick, there's a random pick of you that makes you look like Steven Seagal. Scary.

Q 1- Is it that a lack of depth of knowledge to teach kata brings about a substitution by having a number of kata to keep students' interest?

Q 2- Or is it a modern philosophy of 'more is better' ie more students, more dojo, more kata... comparing sizes to see whose is bigger?


Mick

So does one ever master a kata?
If I was to practice saifa every day under good instruction I dare say after a (long) period of time I would get it pretty good.  Would the continued practice of this kata gain any benefits to me?  Could it even be counterproductive?

Hi Deano,

Mastery in performance? What is the desired outcome?
Win a competition, pass a grading or just a personal goal?
Could your training time be better spent?

Regards,
Boz