Is it me or does everyone notice every fourm in the UK has something bad about GKR on it?
I would like to know why?! -sorry for the detective line
ALSO,what's the big deal about black and white belts?I mean do they put white on the belt?
AND,whats so bad about door-to-door?
PLZ ANZWER!
____________________________________________
Whats the difference beetween karate-do and karate? one ends with o

It's not unlike the large chain store with aggressive marketing campaigns taking market share from the independent local stores (Walmart in the US, Coles/Woolworths in Oz, Tesco in UK...)


Mick

Oh yeah to ppl, I don't hate GKR if you got my name
White Belt Yellow Tip
Thx for comments!
__________________________________________________
Whats the differnce between karate-do and karate? one ends with o

Not everyone here hates GKR, Most of us got our start in it. It's just that as you progress, a lot of people find it rather limiting compared to what other schools would teach you....

GKR got rather a bad rep in the UK, it expanded very very quickly in about 2001-2004 and you got a lot of very poor instructors running classes that they really shouldn't have run.

But....if you've got a good instructor ( Black + White belt is just an Instructors belt - it's NOT a grade......Ask your instructor when grade he or she is - and no, it's not disrespectful! ) then stick with it. I loved GKR when I first started, and there are some very good GKR classes out there now.

Surely the answer is in the first line of your question. If you keep seeing negative comments on different forums maybe there's something to it. As to why, isn't that evident from what's posted on the different forums?

As Wombat said, GKR underwent a phase of rapid expansion in the UK. That meant you had many very poor quality instructors teaching with very little training time under their belts. What was the purpose behind that? It clearly wasn't about teaching good quality karate. As far as I can see it was primarily about generating income for those at the top. I guess the situation has improved somewhat in the last few years. I get the impression that instructors are generally higher grades than was the case a few years ago. But I can't help being suspicious. Have the people at the top changed? Have the aims of the organisation changed? Is it about money, or good quality karate?

One thing I particularly dislike is the use of supposed oriental 'etiquette' to stifle questions by students. Its never rude to ask your instructor what grade they are or about their training history. Its never rude to ask technical questions. Only someone who has something to hide is afraid of questions.



Its a special belt that non-black belt instructors wear. It prevents anyone from knowing what grade the instructor actually is, unless they have the temerity to ask.



Nothing, if the door to door salesmen are entirely truthful. But the impression I get is that they generally offer the earth and sadly GKR is unable to deliver on the promises.

To end on a positive note, welcome to the forum! Its quiet, but there are some good people here.

Mike

Do means 'The Way' Karatedo= The way of Karate. Karate is more of a general term.

The mail problem people have with black and white belts is that they hide any grade from yellow tip upwards u7nder an 'instructor' grade. And before you say "there's a minimum grade for an instructor", that's b/s - I personally know of two yellow TIP and at least 5 orange belt 'instructors'.

That leads to the issue that other schools have with GKR; that they 'employ' novices to teach watered down karate. Unfortunately [for GKR] in this case 2 + 2 = 4.

True. I remember going to senior class when I was 8th kyu or thereabouts. I got chastised for not being able to kick above the waist due to my near-total lack of flexibility.... My view was that if I wanted to strike someone above the waist, I'd use my hands or elbows!

Really. There's hate towards GKR. I always thought it was hate towards Kenshukai. I personally aplaud GKR. They're great, and I think that black and white belts are a great idea, as this way of hiding someone's belt stops students from judging a teacher skills because of their belt.

So why wear a belt, or indeed train towards a black belt at all? In some MA's such as Tai-Chi, this can work because there is no belt system.
How long have you been doing GKR?

I understand the hate and I too get the impression it's more about rapid expansion. It also seems to be exclusively a UK problem from the forums I've seen.

This is my GKR story.

Myself (and my family) all joined GKR together. I did Shotokan and TaeKwonDo as a junior (and some KSK) and was looking to get us back into martial arts for fitness, confidence and some self defence.

We were approached by a SDC (Self Defence Consultant) at our home. He was friendly, open and honest. He gave us the opportunity to try it out for a couple of lessons (without commiting to membership....we DID pay training fees, which is perfectly reasonable).

Once we decided we wanted to go forward, we purchsed a TRIAL membership, which is basically designed to get you to a Yellow Belt and make sure you are 100% on board. Then we purchased our full membership (which had the TRIAL amount deducted from it).

All perfectly reasonable.

Since then, my son and I have competed at State and National Level (I even won my grade/age national championship).

We have also progressed, as a family, at a good rate (not rushed, but good) and recently graded to 6th Kyu.

As a result of reaching 6th Kyu, I have been asked to BEGIN training as an instructor, which is the MINIMUM required (Instructor belts are NOT given to Yellow and Orange belts as I have seen claimed). Personally I do NOT think this is too early for a number of reasons.

One, it means I get to train at a higher level and more often with the best in our region (we have three 3rd dan black belts in our region), so my improvement should become more rapid. Also, at that rapid pace, I should qualify as an instructor with at LEAST a Blue belt and probably a red. I think that is a reasonable stage to start teaching lower ranks in class. You are also expected to maintain a certain level of learning in order to keep teaching. If you consider the idea that I would only teach Orange and below (As a red belt), Blue and Below (as a Brown Belt), etc.....it's all perfectly reasonable, in my opinion.

As for the quality for the Karate.......I see no fundamental difference between the "quality" of GKR or Shotokan or Kei Shin Kan (although the later was a tad more aggresive based). I didn't like TaeKwonDo much, as it relied on kicking almost exclusively......I like using my hands.

GKR participate in the National All Styles tournaments and have produced 7 out of the last 10 open Male champions and 6 out of the last 10 female.

The Karate is solid, especially when you get further up the gradings. It is as good as the effort YOU put into it. And don't worry about the cost or the marketing technique.....the FACT is that we, as a family, spend thousands of dollars less per year than friends who do other styles or Tae Kwon Do. We do not have a "Uniform" that they have to wear to training (unlike our TKD friends). We are allowed to buy $40 Gi's from third party stores and sew our own patches on them, unlike most others who have to buy them at a massive markup from their "club".....Contrary to some of the knockers, with GKR, it is NOT all about the money.

Anyways......all the best with whatever you choose to do.

DICKO

Just a quick comment - instructor 'belts' and title are given to white and yellow belts all over the GKR system but not necessarily under every regional manager. I'm glad it doesn't seem to happen in your region but it does happen all too often.

Hmm, this shouldn't be happening. It doesn't happen in my region and it is also against GKR policy as far as I know. Sure enough, there has been talks of new members being potential future Sempai hopefuls, myself being one of them; but not actual offers until minimum requirements are met.

AFAIK, it's not a policy system-wide.
Also, GKR dominates NAS because of the rule that a technique doesn't count for a point unless the hand is returned to the hip - a GKR-only habit.
I still think GKR is a good foundation style in most regions and have no regrets over the time I spent with them. Most of my extended family and closest friends I met through GKR too!

I didn't know this... I'm of the opinion that NAS is effectively a GKR tournament in all but name only. They always seem to be very well represented.

Not true, there is nothing in the rules about returning the hand. See hereNAS Rules
The main reason why GKR does well at NAS Tournaments is that they have a dedicated tournament team in each state that prepares for those mixed tournaments. Sometimes other styles / clubs turn up and are taken by surprise by other styles. For example, If you sparr against TKW you have to be aware that there’s a lot more kicking happening, and adjust your range.

that's not the main reason but one of many...another is that some gkr competitors don't grade till the end of the year. eg, starts the year out as an orange belt, then misses a grading or 2 during the year but remains in an orange belt division, even though his standard has risen beyond his/her division, the competitor then is graded at the end of the year, some double grade...<shrugs>

Ive been a member of GKR for 15 years and it is very true about holding back gradings in order to win their divisions at tournament. This happens all the time, it seems to be one of their stratagies to win more medals. One reason GKR performs so well in Nas is because of the share amount of members in the club compared to most other clubs.
I too have been very aware of the club as very much into making a profit at the expense of offering or teaching good karate. Unfortunately the bigger the club gets the less members rights are put first, they are no longer seen as individuals but as a way to make even more money for the club through their own tournaments, gradings, merchandise and over priced training fees. Not to mention using under qualified instructors to pull in the punters. Im sorry GKR, allthough you offer an opening for martial arts training to most, the quality is certainly less than what is required as you get higher up in the grades of Dans. I know this seems very negative, however after 15 years I have gained a lot of insight into the workings of GKR.
I refused to believe these things for several years, but can no longer live in denial when I keep seeing the serious lack of integrity, especially when it comes to the poor treatment of these low grade instructors who are the ones bringing in a lot of money for the club.
Shame on you GKR!

I agree with what is said here. Basically everything that is said, is true.

There is dedicated teams just for NAS and GKR Tournaments, I know a few on the teams and I'm hoping to get on it within the next few weeks (For Queensland). Double grades also happen, but it isn't a common practice - You have to be at a high caliber for it to happen. Least that is the case for my region, from my understanding.

However, with the last thing that was quoted, less quality the higher up you get? This certainly is not the case in my region. If anything, the requirement to grade gets harder and harder, with a giant jump in dedication to pass black belt.

I am still not completely confident with the Black and White belts, it's a good idea, however I see that belt going to people that have the skills of a white belt with zero hand-eye coordination (Ok, exaggerated slightly, but you get my point). But in defense, one of my first instructors I was introduced too was absolutely brilliant.

Black and white is an extremely poor idea, and probably one of my biggest regrets...taught from 3rd kyu and through sho-ho, left the club just before shodan grading...wasn't worth achieving. Changed the goal posts... however since leaving I've gained a greater understanding of basic principles, core structure/grounding and application work, the list goes on...and on.. there is no way that anyone should be teaching at least untill ni-dan and that would be in a roll as sempai..there's no way you can teach what you don't understand. and by teaching what isn't understood promotes poor karate, oh recalls ... anyone can teach you how to punch, how to move, how to block, how to do a kata, especially a lower kyu kata... believe this and the only person your fooling is yourself. figures I'ld do a far more competent job instructing beginners now, then previously as my understanding is greater, but I'm too busy learning to even think about it ;-)
Refrains from going on a B&W bash as their understanding is not yet ready for understanding the ramifications of applying/teaching "their understanding"
The less quality the higher you get is true..if your shodan, and your RM is shodan he has little if anything to offer. A nidan rm has less to teach a fellow nidan student, not much other than correctional help,after all they are both the same grade...especially under gkr standards. but a nidan will look impressive to a b&w instructor invited to senior training.

When you open a bank account, buy a car, sign up for an insurance contract or join a Martial Arts club it truly is buyer beware. However most people don't check credentials or obtain references, etc. Often a friend or someone in the work place recommends a style or a teacher and even though they may have never graded, their advice is usually taken.

No club is perfect, its all in the perception. Karate is a flawed art and has been since it was introduced into the Western World. We are taught lots of techniques and kata but rarely taught how to apply karate. Nowadays everyone, and I did too, get caught up in applying the kata techniques which in modern karate were more concerned with fitting into the Phys Ed. syllabi of schools. Often the self defence potential of karate is taught in a skewed fashion.

I could be wrong but its unfair to aim all guns at the GKR.

The most positive thing anyone studying karate at a low or high grade can do is to apply common sense and do the necessary research to those things that are important to us.

Cheers,
Boz

Hi,

I am new to GKR. I have previously trained in another martial arts where I achieved 1st dan, and was an assistant instructor. I find the techniques at GKR to be very different to my previous martial arts. I do not know what grade the instructors are, but they do a good job. Just because you are a black belt or above, does not mean you are able to teach others. A lower rank could be a far better teacher than a higher rank. I dont really care what rank the instructors are, as long as they are good at teaching, and have the knowledge to teach. What I have noticed though, is that almost every lesson is the same. I know the best way to master a technique is to do it over and over again, however, I think there should me more range of techniques in classes. Maybe this is limited because the instructors do not know many more techniques? Maybe I will reach a point in my training where I am not learning anything more, and so will get bored and leave. At the moment though, I enjoy the classes, and the challenge of mastering a new style. I did not realise GKR had such a bad name. I have been approached about becoming a consultant for GKR. I have almost started doing it, but after reading some comments, I am now wondering if it may not be such a good idea??? Has anyone had a bad experience doing this?

Different schools have different ways of delivering or executing techniques. Who is to say who is right or wrong? Its a fallacy though to believe the old chestnut about implying that some kyu grades could be better teachers than some BB's IMO. Anyone can mimic moves and pass it off as teaching and many instructors do just that I suppose but the implication should be that the more experience and knowledge then the better probability that they will be able to teach more- some kyu and BBs will never be teachers because there are other factors involved but at the bottom of it all should be knowing what it is you teach.

Repetition is the backbone of learning any skill but as important is understanding correct (read safe) biomechanics and knowing what end result is sought. If one hasn't reached BB then they need supervision and should teach those a few grades below them. If you like GKR then give it a good go. You should be able to form a pretty good opinion if you have obtained a BB elsewhere... good luck with your training.

Bob

I am a member of GKR, I don't see any problems with it, and with the bad low belt instructor crap. My BLACK belt sensei, usually makes us (collective to green belts and above) teach the lower grades things, how is this any different to having a green/orange belt instructor? But I guess I haven't really had a low grade instructor before, because my two sensei's are black and brown (2nd kyu I think...) Although there is a few instructors that I have seen that definitely should not be there. However it is lack of them taking in the teachings, not of what they are being taught.

I think that the quality of karate is infact dependant on whether or not you think about it logically. If you really think about it, you could easily figure out what the kata is really teaching you in ways of self defence... But This is just my opinion I guess... And as for the 'minimum requirements... for an instructor' My dad became an instructor when he was an orange belt, but this was over 8 years ago, and he picked it up extremely fast, and was extremely good.

and with the classes being the same issue, This has never happened to me once. My sensei being a black belt, taught me two kata's above my grading kata though. Which I surpassed and now know all the colour belt kata, and also sanseryu sepai and kururunfa... I guess anything is possible when you put your mind to it!

Only if you know the techniques employed and understand the possible attacks.


The next challenge then is to learn why rather than just how.


Mick