I had a student ask me a question the other day that got me thinking.

He asked along the lines of "What happens if we get injured in class? - do we get any assistance for medical bills?"

"Damn fine question " I thought.

So - fortunately I havent had to find out for myself, but I was wondering if anyone knows the clubs policy on this matter. GKR must have insurance of course but details of what it covers and student entitlements arent exactly published on the official website ().

Also - if you are new to the club what are your expectations in this matter?
Injuries are a real possibility and you probably want to know where you stand.

as you know matt i broke my arm at karate i ended up with a plate and six screws , i certainly didn't get any offers of assisstance from gkr, mind you i didn't ask either so i'd be to blame atleast in part there, and in whole for the broken arm as i blocked wrong . big tip when blocking a round house kick wait for the contact before twisting your arm, twist early and you could find it a painful experience . in summary i never blamed gkr and never will for my broken arm it was my fault full stop, i was lucky enough to have been told and shown the right way to block, i just got it wrong. however i to would like to know what would happen if it was gkr's fault, i think they say they take NO responsabilty for any injuries incurred while you are at training,i wonder if that would stand up in court if you decided to take that action against them.

I don't know what the law in Australia says on this point but in the UK insurance cover is mandatory when running a martial arts club.Infact a student could demand to see the clubs certificate of insurance cover.If the student has not been trained properly,and then injured through that lack of training,GKR could be liable for their loss of earnings and medical bills.As a professional business they are just as liable as any other business in terms of injury and personal loss to their customers.Infact instructors may need some form of offical certification from a governing body before insurance is valid.

Just another point.If students aren't too sure of the clubs cover they could take out their own insurance to cover their loss of earnings and medical costs

well this is not gospel but, the way i understand it is that if a student/sensai gets injured as part of a gkr class (as covered in the little red book) then the club will assist in any medical bills, if asked by the injured, they wont just jump and and offer to pay it. If however it is because of the sensai doing things not in the normal scope of a gkr class then the instructor should watch out, they are liable.

hope this helps to clarify things a little.

Thanks, this is good to hear. I guess I can understand the club not jumping to pay every time someone breaks a fingernail, and having personally seen the costs of indemnity insurance double then double again I'd be very hesitant to claim also. Lets face it, we're doing a martial art and that by its nature carries a higher than normal chance of injury - I think most people would accept this.

I discussed the matter of personal liability at length with a family member who is a ligitation lawyer (yup - and ambulance chaser) before becoming an instructor. Regardless of how an injury occured any instructor can be potentially held financially liable for injuries to their students. In practice the first target would be the club as holders of the insurance policy (that is after all what it is taken out for), but there is still the potential for us to be targeted.
Practically however at the end of the day its the person/entity with the most money that gets sued (dontchya love lawyers ).

Not a comforting thought, but thats how things are now.
Wonder how the Dojos in the US will fair.

I think GKR should make pupils sign disclaimers if they want to spar.Like Matt says karate is a dangerous sport, and an instructor should not be held liable for injury that occurs during sparring.I know kyokushinkai knock down fighters have to sign a disclaimer before entering a contest stating they will not hold the organisers liable.Hounding people who are making a meagre living has become a lucrative business for these overpaid lawyers. If a pupil requires insurance cover they should have to take it out themselves.If claims get made against GKR the money has to come from somewhere and that means an increase in the price of lessons for everyone.

Wait till they start up in the States.The law in the states is a minefield especially in regard to product liability.Like they said at Arnhem,its perhaps a bridge too far.What about starting up in Iraq,they don't have any laws there!

I'm not sure that a waiver against injury carries any weight at all, I've been told it's like signing away civil rights sort-of-thing.

What we do have in other clubs is a statement on the membership form to the effect that you understand that there is the potential for injury in doing a martial art. Which basically stops you turning around and saying that you didn't know you could get hurt.

Any other sport you accept the risk of injury, are MA any different? If you play tennis you could slip and fall on the court while going after the ball, cricket/softball/baseball you could be hit by the ball after it has been struck. The list could go on, and these are non-contact sports. Think about if you play a contact sport, the risk increases (I've seen netball and despite what people say I count it as a contact sport).


Mick

My last style actually gave you the details of what you were entitled to if you were injured. On enrolment you received a schedule of what you would receive for what injury. This really made me feel like I was being looked after. Its got to at least seem to be about more than just the money.

I don't recall anything specific about compensation within my club, but there ws mention about it on enrolment and on my enrolment form (I guess I should go back and read it again).

I have noticed that the instructors are very strict on following the "correct procedure" when it comes to teaching.

They have a specific format that they follow and even seperate rules for males and females, the young and the old, lower grades and higher grades.

I will ask about compensation next time I attend class and I may enquire about liability of instructors and what not.

Oh dear, makes my wish for harder training and contact kumite a bit much huh?
My attitude...you train, you may get hurt. You get hurt, bad luck. If you don't realise that you may get hurt doing karate or any other type of contact sport what sort of a fool are you?
I used to race bikes when I was younger and we often laughed at the disclaimer we had to sign, "motorsport is dangerous. You may be killed or injured."
Well Der!!!!
I paid my lifetime membership fee, maybe that covers me for injury or death while training. If it does, happy days. If I'm dead it won't bother me much. If you seen my driving you'd realise that dying in class is not likely for me
I hope it never happens to anyone. But it does. Let's save the claims for people who really get hurt seriously, and the busted noses and broken bones go under the heading of, "I won't lead with that body part again!"

The only problem with commonsense is, it just ain't that common anymore!

Couldn't agree more.We live in a compensation culture society.Anyone practicing karate must accept they will get injuries from time to time.