Recently the karate club I'm with have decided to become affiliated with a high class club with high standards. And watching these guys has awaken something in me that has renewed my perspective. Given me a zeal I haven't had in ages.
My mawasha geri is totally crap. So I have been stretching a few times a day every day and my knees are begining to be sore. Not so bad that it inhibits everyday activity. Just, sore.
My stretching, whilst karate is off over Christmas is simply the splits to the side and bending at the hip to touch the floor. And occationally down to each ankle. Am I over doing it? Or just doing it wrong?

Help

Si

You should bend you knees slightly when stretching. This will reduce the impact to your knees, but still allow a good groin, hamstring, etc. stretch.

Knees need to be given a lot of care, too many karate ka these days are having knee surgery. This I believe is a combination between not doing the correct exercises and not listening to the body when its telling them that its being damaged.

Thanks for your reply, Goju.
I did eventually start to bend at the knee. But perhaps this was too late?
Could gravity play a part in it? What I mean is, if both legs are 45° either side, and the centre of gravity is forced down (obviously). Could that put excessive pressure on the inner most part of the knee?

Just a thought.

Si

The problem is Knees are ment to bend sideways, and with groin stretches and many other stretches to achieve high kicks you are putting that type of force on the knee when your legs are straight. if you bend it slightly (maybe an inch) you would relieve a lot of this pressure.

If you still had pain after bending at the knee, give the stretching a rest. so your body can recover (maybe a week) then try again later.

Hi pleb.

knees are a bit of an issue for me too. When doing the side split hands on the floor or to one ankle stretch i found it very painful also.

instead of doing this i started to sit on the floor with legs out to the side and leaning forward always stretching forward for another board or trying to get the chest closer to the floor. It relieved the pain in the knees but you have to work a little harder to gain the stretch you want.

Thanks, Goju and Susan, for your feedback.
I'll make a start on using my leg stretching thingy, That way I'll be sat down. I'll give it a go and let you know what becomes.

Got the knees, had the surgery, taken the pills and now wearing the magnet.

Si exactly why do you consider your mawashi geri crap? Is it height? Go train with Mike in Leeds for a whole new perspective on that little issue. For that matter - given that mawashi geri is almost an afterthought in karate, does it really matter?

It's like a personal vendeta, Matt, I have to get to hip hight. Its the one thing that I feel that from the begining of my karate has thwarted everything. It's probably an un-just thing, but, it has to be sorted before I can move on. I'm not sure that will make sense. It does seem rather ridiculous, non the less, I want to get to hip hight.

Hi,

try doing the side splits but on your knees. I do this stretch a lot and got it from some athletes and gave it to my training partners who loved it.

At home on carpet or cushions - kneel down on the cushions and pull them apart keeping ur hips fwd and body upright. There'll be no stress on the knee joint at all, but if you get a dodgy feeling in ur groin/hip area the best advice is to stick ur butt out a bit lol!. From there you can move ur legs further apart if you wish but the idea is to relax into it.

In the dojo you can do this on matts or use ur leg pads. Aim to get the inside of ur knees making contact with the floor.


Also, if you want height for mawashi geri do the preparation part of the kick with the ankle in line with the knee. Once you've practised these building up to faster pace then try holding your leg out in the preparation stage and 'pulsing' your leg without dropping it too far.

Do that every day and you'll build the muscle to keep ur leg up there and gain flexi without putting stress on those joints.
let me know if it helps!

Its true, my round kick is somewhat different to a traditional karate mawashi-geri. Generally I apply two criteria in kicking:
1. Keep it low, ie. below hip height
2. Only kick when the opponent is unbalanced in some way, preferably when you've already got hold of them

This changes your choice of kicks dramatically.

As for round kicks specifically, I'll do it in one of two different ways:
1. A swing, hacking right through the opponent's leg with my shin
2. A snap - no hip involvement, just snapping the tip of the toes into the inner thigh or groin.

Frankly I couldn't throw a 'proper' mawashi-ger chudan to save my life these days.




Indeed! But then pretty much none of the kicks in karate-do were practiced the way they are now before the 1920's (or even 30's).



I understand completely, its become a personal challenge. And as you're studying Wado Ryu you should kick the Wado Ryu way, your own physical characteristics permitting. Its not for me really to offer technical advice on a kick I don't do myself, but experience suggests that a pertinent thing to examine is technique, at least as much as flexibility. Get your seniors to check that your feet are pointing in the right directions and that the ankles, knees and hips are pointing/flexed appropriately - throughout the whole movement. There are so many different nuances on how you can throw a round kick, each teacher will have their own views.



This sounds a little gung ho to me - the pulling the cushions apart bit to be specific. It might not stress your knee but it could easily stress your hip. There are several key features to stretching in an effective, safe and sustainable way:
1. Stretch little and often
2. Ensure sufficient strength (don't focus only on flexibility)
3. Ensure your muscles are warm before stretching (eg. 20 mins cardiovascular exercise first)
4. Go to a comfortable maximum and hold for at least 10 (preferably 20) seconds - Don't bounce!
5. Be patient

A side stretch with your knees bent is quite different to a side stretch with the legs straight. The emphasis is on different (although related) muscles. I’m pretty flexible when it comes to kneeling with the knees far apart, largely as a result of studying and practising shiatsu. But with the legs straightened I’m no more flexible than the average green belt.

I’d also be careful about stretching with the knees fully straightened (locked out). It might be OK for some people but not others. If you have any issues with hypermobility (either systemic or just affecting one particular joint) then this will likely cause you problems. Personally I’d prefer to stretch with my knees slightly bent - slightly less effective perhaps but much safer.

Mike

Well, I've been using my leg stretching thingy every morning since Monday. I only use it for about quarter of an hour to twenty minutes each time.
It's maybe just in my head but I get the feeling that it has helped already. I was even doing some semi convincing round kicks in the dojo last Monday (first day back after Christmas). I'm feeling hopeful!
I hear what you're both saying, and thank you for the time to share. I have done that one where you kneel on the floor. I have done that before in warm up, but had forgotten about it, I'll try again soon.