We've just started looking at kata for use in competition, and in doing so sticking mainly with the ShitoRyu and GojuRyu JKF shiteigata, at least for now. It provides a convenient starting point, and without the same conflicts as other kata being performed differently in different schools. There are still different versions of these kata practiced in different schools but at least in most cases the shiteigata are accepted as "proper" versions. That's my thought anyway.

And I chose ShitoRyu and GojuRyu kata because the basic techniques are more compatible with how they're practiced already.

As a side note, what has struck me in the process is how blindingly obvious some of the applications are. This is in marked contrast to what I thought a few years back, when I had no idea. So now I have vague ideas


Mick

I would not consider the Shitei kata to be a "proper version" rather the agreed version for WKF ruled tournaments in the first 2 rounds. It is for show and is a soft/pretty (call it what you will) version for competition.

Shitei Kata while good to compare apples with apples so speak becomes boring when you have to watch the same kata over and over again from a referee or spectator point of view.

Also there is the problem with people accepting the Shitei as correct, over ones own ryu-ha version. Thus the ryu-ha version over time becomes lost.

I wouldn't expect any judge to accept a shitty kata....



***ok, as nooms says..... I'll be good now***

Yep that's why I put "proper" in quotes. There are any number of variations between schools, and even between dojo to a greater or lesser extent. And as far as learning from book or video (I hear you all go *gasp* ) they're easy enough to get hold of when the purpose is competition.



If I was looking for the "correct" version of Seipai I might go to Mabuni's "Seipai no Kenkyu" or a book of similar vintage. I think most of the time the ryu-ha versions are the interpretations of the founder of the school anyway. Each group seems to re-invent aspects of kata according to their own opinions. Or maybe there's more to it than that, but certainly different schools teaching the same 'style' of karate often each have their own slight variation on the same kata.


Mick

Seems to me kata for tournaments is counterproductive to its very purpose, no?

Its hard to say. The idea of Shiteikata is ok (for olympic recognition etc) but it has its down side.

I teach both Shito Shitei kata in my dojo, but stress students must also know our own version. If I ask for Bassai-Dai to be demonstrated I want our version not the tournament version. But when a tournamnet is coming up we practice the Shitei kata more. Its not hard to change. Remembering that in Shito we practice 5 different versions of the kata and should be able to keep the variations alive so to speak.

I had enough trouble keeping 3 versions of Saifa straight when I was investigating that kata! Personally I think it's easier to not have different versions of a kata although I suppose it must help sharpen concentration to not accidentally slip from one version into another midway through practice. How do you find it, keeping the different versions separate?


Mick

Take Passai or Bassai which ever you call it. In Shito-Ryu we have, Itosu, Matsumura, Ishimine, Tomari and Shitei. Itosu and Shitei are the closest versions with only a few variations. The others are distinctly different. At first it can be confusing but after practicing them for years I find no problems in remembering them.

However as the Shitei and Itosu versions are so close, you do have to really concentrate. With this in mind for my students before a tournament (say for a month or so before hand) we will not practice Itosu to avoid confusion. This seems to work for all those competing.

Colin
www.shitoryuaustralia.com

We practise both goju ryu Shiteigata and Budogata (traditional kata). However only those interested in competition learn shiteigata. When practising we have a different mindset: Budogata is for kumite, each move must be able to save your life. Shiteigata is for winning medals. I find the different methods help each other.