Hi all..
I have been trawling the forums recently with great interest, but have not found a great deal of content that deals with some of the "higher"grade Kata.

I would be very interested to get some feedback on Kururunfa, and in particular the bunkai for this Kata.

Perhaps someone has a URL to a demonstration that could help me out.



[/i]Have fun and travel safe

Hi Mares, Welcome to our forum!

Done abit of digging on Kururunfa, but I`ve not been able to find a great deal about it. It`s not really a kata that I`m very familiar with - which obviously helps you out even less!
I did come across this though...

"Kururunfa translates as "To Hold One's Ground" or "17 Hands". This is a powerful form that teaches among other things, infighting techniques. Kururunfa originated in Naha, Okinawa but was likely influenced by Chinese Kung Fu."

And this...

"It means "forever peacefulness, stops tearing".This was handed down from the Chinese master, Ryuryu Ko to Kanryo Higaonna
but the original creator of this kata is unknown. Kururunfa contains a wide variety of open-hand techniques and especially hand/hip co-ordination techniques. Like Sesan Kururunfa has soft movements followed by hard movements, however in Kururunfa the difference between hard and soft are much more marked with slow drawn out movements followed by a pause with devastating explosive techniques to follow, then the cycle repeats again."

So.....What do we know about this kata then? That it is one that`s drawn from the Goju-Ryu style. That it is of White Crane Kung-Fu origin, although no-one seems to know exactly where it came from, and that it`s a possible counterpart to kata Suparinpei - although I`ve heard it said that originally Superinpei and Kururunfa were both parts of the same kata.
A question for my Instructor later I think!

It has been quite some time since I've seen this kata performed so I went looking for pictures or a description since I don't have my Okinawan Goju Ryu kata reference book with me atm. Didn't find pictures but I did find this:



You need to look at this kata particularly in terms of responses to common assaults - trying to match applications to karate attacks will be frustrating at best.

What is immediately striking is that the opening sequences are similar to a number of responses for being struck at or being grabbed with an intention to strike, with responses taking the form of moving/evading with a defense and counter followed by trapping the limb and applying a lock.

Please note I've only spent a few minutes on this and this is just my initial impression from reading a description of the movements.


Mick

WOW - thanks for the additional info on the origins. I have not found a lot.

My reason behind the original post is I am trying to ascertain the different interpretations of Bunkai for this particular Kata. and why would I want to do that you ask..... ??

A group of us are doing a demonstration of this Kata at an up and coming tournanment ( half time entertainment) - and I am keen to learn the vagaries of Bunkai interpretations to better reflect the application of the Kata.

Any assistance is greatly appreciated.


[i]have fun and travel dafe

I've just pulled down my copy of "Okinawa Goju Ryu Karate no Kata Dentotekkina Kata to Sono Imi" (Okinawan Goju Ryu Karate Kata: Traditional Kata and their meanings) to refresh my memory. This is one chapter I never got around to translating but if I recall correctly it's a relatively simple and straightforward kata. Many of the moves are repeated on both sides which either means skipping over the duplications or picking out a second application to show for the repeated movement on the other side. Given how many uses most sequences can be put to, particularly the common movements found repeated in kata, this should not be a huge challenge.

How familiar are you with this kata? The quickest way is to run through it with your instructor and ask about the bits with which you are unsure.

Personally I find it easiest to go through from the attacking side and remember that part because then the kata movements normally mesh quite nicely. Plus there's less remembering of what you need to do when all you need is the attack and then just defend with the sequence of movements from the kata.

You could always take the popular approach and just have a different attacker in zenkutsu dachi on each side. Just practice enough times that they attack in the right order and don't muck it up with a reverse punch instead of a lunge punch. That was not a serious comment and I apologise, except some people accept this as perfectly valid explanation of kata.


Mick

I remember seeing quite a few of these 'act out the kata' displays - some better than others.

My advice is please please please don't do the old 'block a punch from attacker A, turn and block a kick from attacker B, then rip the goolies off attacker C who was standing by waiting for his turn.' I dont know the kata but I'm sure you can think up something better than that old line

Good luck!

Matt

Thanks for the input.....and I think (hope) we look a bit better than just basic "block / punch / kick / rip out the goolies".

Only time will tell on that one.

After some discussion with my Sensei, our approach is more to "make it look realistic", that to perfectly emulate the moves of the Kata.

I will keep you posted.



Mares

When I hear the term "Realistic Bunkai" I can`t help but remember an old instructor I once trained under who, on seeing my attemped interpretation of Taikyodo shodan - told me that a block/punch combo that I`d turned into a joint lock wouldn`t "because you don`t get taught those"
Fair comment I suppose, But I`m still under the impression that there are no actual blocks in kata. Is there any reason to suppose that this is true with the higher kata aswell? And is there any need to apply the same level of depth to our "Training Kata" ( for wont of a better word) as we would do to our more advanced ones. Maybe this is worthy of another thread.....
I need to have a look at kururunfa though, i`m just speculating about it at the moment.

Wouldn't that imply then that you never need to block?

Well, of course you`d need to block, otherwise there wouldn`t be any point in learning anything else. But what I`m saying is that a block is pretty much a simple thing that is very easy to interpret as something else. Same with strikes, come to that....

Maybe there are no "just a block" blocks in kata then?

I`d say pretty much everything in kata is open to debate really. It`s meant to be a teaching tool ( and an element of grading ) and everyone will always have different views on why move X is there and why move Y is there and so on
Going back to Kururunfa, I`ve not come across any suggested Bunkai yet - I was going to ask the Instructor yesterday but got sidetracked....

I think there's an old thread covering this but is probably a good topic to take a fresh look at anyway.

IMO "block" is a poor interpretation of the term "uke". "Uke" more properly means "receive" and this opens up a whole lot more options just from the shift in thinking that comes with the different meaning.

Back on the topic of Kururunfa application I've found reference to the Bubishi figures 18 and 39 from the 48 self defence diagrams.

18 is Tiger strikes the earth (winning technique) vs Lion playing with a ball (losing technique).
Regardless of an attacker's size or strength, you can take him down by seizing the leg with one hand and pushing the inside of the knee or hip joint with the other.

39 is Pulling then hitting back (winning technique) vs Twisting the head (losing technique).
By grabbing an attacker's wrist and pulling him off-balance you can strike his armpit or neck with your elbow before locking his arm to throw him down.


Mick

IMO there are no techniques in kata. Instead there are principles, which can be utilised in many different ways. Or in other words, the movements are multi-purpose tools.

Mike

And the debate continues........

In my humble opinion, the description given by Sionnagh epitomises the Kata in question.

I have always learned and practiced Kata by "seeing and living the fight". Regardless of the interpretation of the Bunkai, there will always be a sequence of both defensive and aggressive moves to "fight off your imaginary foe", which is pretty much what my first Sensei told me when I first started. Maybe he lead me astray early, but I doubt it.

The interpretation of the Kata by virtue of the Bunkai, whilst pivotal to the Kata, but will no doubt differ between styles of martial arts. You only have to check out a NAS tournament to see what I mean here.

Being mindful of this, I believe there is no right or wrong answer to the situation.

Having said all this..................I though my starting question was a simple one.

Needless to say, the thought and commentary evoked is awesome - and enlightening.

So, back to the initial reason of the thread..... does anyone have any URL's for a demo of this Kata ???

If not, I will to get a video of what we do at the tournament, and provide a URL.

Ah, We enjoy a good thread drift from time to time!

I`ve found this...

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...amp;q=kururunfa

The quality ain`t too good (ok, its pretty poor) but it gave me an idea of what the kata looks like.

Some bits reminded me of certain moves in Tai-Chi......

Is he wearing some sort of bandanna on his head? In any case watching the video some parts do seem quite obvious in terms of potential application.


Mick

Last night, s/Kevin showed us one of the kururunfa bunkai he did to get his 6th dan at the Goodwill Games in South Africa. It concerns the bit of the kata that most people recognise - the arms come out then go up and then come down the front of the body doing some kind of twisty twiddly motion. So, this is what I saw...

s/Keith did a kick which s/Kevin stepped across and blocked on the outside causing s/Keith to swing round so his back was facing s/Kevin. s/Kevin reached through between s/Keith's legs from behind and grabbed his belt and pulled him in close. Then using a lifting, twisting and turning motion he upended him so that his head was pointing downwards and his feet upwards and then did a pile driver with him into the floor. Bearing in mind that s/Keith is 6' and not skinny, I was mighty impressed. Sorry, I cant tell you exactly how he did the twisty/turning bit, it happened so quickly but thought you might enjoy the story. Needless to say, s/Keith spoke with quite a high voice for a while afterwards lmao

The two very long steps afterwards with the hands grabbing downwards are where you reach forward from a ready position and grab the leg of a person also standing in a ready position at knee and ankle - as in one of the bunkai we use for saifa (the circle with the hands and bashing of one fist into a palm). The effect of this causes them to fall backwards. My sensei saw it done in a competition once at the very start of a bout.

I seem to recall Tim Nicklin teaching the first two moves as an escape from a lapel grab.

This is, I believe, the full extent of my knowledge of kururunfa. Ive watched it a couple of times recently as my sensei is hoping to try for his 5th dan in December - he was doing the bunkai yesterday but I was doing something else so I didnt get a chance to watch. Hope this helps but if you have any areas that you are completely stuck in, let me know and I will ask.

This is just a few. There a heap more.

http://students.washington.edu/gojuryu/kata11.html

http://www.gojukai.nl/karate/en/kata_bunkai.html

http://www.shitokai.com/newsletter/kururunfa.php

http://karateclip.blogspot.com/2006/06/kururunfa-kata.html

http://www.staffs-higashi.org.uk/kururunfa.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYgVO4ls-ow

http://youtube.com/watch?v=anImGyvoQI4

http://www.goju-ryu.info/Curriculum/Kata/K...31/Default.aspx You will need to log in for this one.

Thanks for the links - they are great !!

Well, the demo at the tournament has now been completed - and the "polite" feedback received was all positive.

I would be interesting to receive any feedback (constructuve of course) from anyone who was there.

Needless to say, we will continue to practice, and make any necessary changes as they are deemed appropriate.

I need to get my head around editing the video footage, and then will post a URL.

Again, thanks for the feedback, assistance and support....................


Have fun and travel safe.

How's that video coming along?


Mick