Having decided to "have a go" at learning karate at a fairly late stage of my sporting life and carrying the usual old football injuries I am repeatedly been told by workmates that "your too old go and play golf or something" I was wondering if you are restricted pysically to progress thru the grades.I must admit prior to starting Karate I was a little apprehensive as I thought it was for younger people but having seen students of all ages at grading I now know this not to be true but how far can you go? Do we have to be Bruce Lee clones?Having been fairly competetive in what I do it can be quite frustrating whatching your Sensei or a particularly flexible student going thru their paces and you think"no way". What do you"old timers" out there think? Phew! I need a rest after that!!! :zen:

No way - never too old, fat, thin, uncoordinated or anything. (hell if I can do it )

There is a student in our region who is 72 years old and 2nd kyu. I'll let you know when he's due to grade to first and suggest you come and watch. I've sparred him and he is awesome.

Yes it takes him a bit longer to progress, but its the mental attitude that wins out over physical setbacks every time.

Incidentally, when I started I thought exactly the same - theres NO WAY I can do that stuff....
I keep surprising myself, and I'm sure you will too......

(recommend training twice a week but )

Yup, if Matt can do it...


Mick

I'm trying to work out if that is a compliment to Matt or a suggestion he's a bit long in the tooth!! Mick :thumbgrin: and I do aggree it's all in the head and how bad you want it makes the aches and pains forgettable.

I not long turned 21.
I know I'm at a more of an advantage than, say that 72 year old 2nd kyu, but I still feel like I started too late in life.
I watch the young Children in the front row and think "If only I began when I was that young." I mean, I'd be a high graded black belt by now if I had.

I just hope I'm not 72 when i get to 2nd kyu.

I feel like it's going to take me forever.
Im going to be an orange belt forever at this rate.

Still overdue to grade to green but I just CAN'T get my kata right to go.
I guess will power and focus does win over strength and speed every time.

Good luck in your training Thomwells. I'm sure things aren't that bad and you will do fine.

It's an old post, but I just want to comment to agent99, that you shouldn't regret about thing like this 'If only I began when I was that young'

If you began when you were young, at the age you are now, you probably are not doing any martial arts anymore or lost interest in it, like many kids do. What I'm trying to tell you that life has planned at the right time for you to start on something.

I started only 4 months ago, and i'm 23, I told my dad exactly like what you thought, but my dad said if I started earlier I might not end up with what I am today.

Frankly, I've tried entering many martial arts since the age of 10, but there were always internal & external barriers that prevented me from doing martial arts, only now I have the opportunity. And like many other people say, thanks to those people knocking my door.

So instead you think 'I wish I had...', why don't you think this way 'now that I have my chance doing karate, I'm going to give my best'

Just my $0.02

Never thought of it that way, but good point.
I never had the motivation to stick with anything much when I was younger.......I'd prob have a dusty orange belt in the shed somewhere by now, which would only wrap once around my huge beer gut

(NO comments you lot! )

Yeah, me too. Didn't have much staying power when I was younger. I didn't start until my late 30's and now keeping fit is one of my priorities thanks to a few hard karate classes.

I think when we were kids, there are many things to explore. Most kids get bored pretty quickly, that's why repetitive karate trainings may bore them. And some of them do karate because their parents ask them to do so. While at later age, we do karate from our own will, true? No?

Howdy all.
In one of my classes, there is only one student under 30 - and she is 26. I think age does matter though. Focus is much more often seen in adults than children, although I have seen some very young people with admirable focus!

JBTW... how old is Kancho?! Ask him if age matters!

depending on what you expect to get out of your karate... of course age matters...

if you want fantastic high kicks and agility during sparring, best you start younger.
if you want discipline in life, best you start when you're older

thats not to say you CANT do those things anyway
it just takes more practise and more work on your part (and dare i say your senseis part)...

every one can learn every aspect of karate...
its up to the individual (despite age) to develop all those aspects to THEIR full potential (not the next persons full potential)
karate is an individual thing...and always will be...

good luck all no matter what age you are...

too old?

who's too old?

check out the OLD masters of karate, kung fu, ju jitsu, etc.
they're all ancient

but i bet they'd all be able to kick my butt. in mental focus as well as physical ability and flexibilty

go for it thomwells :thumbwink:

Turning this post on its head,can you be too young for karate?
I think their should be an age limit to when u can start, say around 6. what do you guys think?
I know GKR is for everyone,but feel children under this age dont have the concentration req,of course there will always be the exception to the rules'
Regards
Nigel

As an instructor I'd say yes, but thats because when they start their inquisitive little minds ask so many questions and make me work harder .

I think 5 is a good age. Some places start as young as three which to me is just plain ridiculous. I dont think 3 years allows enough mental and physical growth and communications skills to develop. It also looks kinda weird seeing these 7 year old black belts.

That brings me to an interesting question. The min black belt age is 13. If someone starts at age 5 and trains regularly they could feasably be 1st kyu by age 9. What are you suppossed to do with them for the next 4 years?

Matt
This is a problem i think i will encounter,my son Sam has just turned 8,and was graded against my wishes to 3rd kyu brown belt a few weeks ago.Quite feasibly he could be ready to grade to shodan ho at 9 to10 years old.As mature as Sam is for his age,I think its a long time to expect a child to wait without any tangible recognition,for the opertunity to grade to shodan ho.
Although recently Joe Estrada said that the youngest age someone can grade to shodan ho is 11 to12. again I have been told that at least 1 young lady graded to shodan ho at the age of 10 here in the UK.We shall have to wait and see what developes,if Sam is ready and has to wait then so be it.
Regards
Nigel

I dont get it.
They make these rules then change them when it suits them.
If a kids good enough and trained long enough surely they deserve a black belt. It seems thats the case so why not just ditch the rule and grade on merit like its supposed to be?

I also feel that if someone has come from another style similar, and knows the katas they should be allowed to either keep their belt or at least attempt the grading to the appropriate level. The precedent - with far less conditions - has already been set for this.

this is one of the reasons ( not the only one) my son and i gave up training for 2 years he trained every week twice a week min and was going as much as 4 times a week he got to his red belt at age 9 and had enough classes up to grade to brown, you do the maths in 12 months or so he was stuck where he was for 2 years. so he took time of to do other things.

I have seen the other end of things where someone would turn up for classes several times each week but just go through the motions - no effort in basics or kata, and even not want to spar (which is required for senior grades at grading), but still expect to grade when they had done the minimum number of classes.
IMO no effort = no grading.

In assessing people for grading, standard came before time or number of classes. I really didn't worry whether they had done the required minimum if they were good enough, although only very rarely did that happen. Usually it would be a case of longer than the minimum before I would send someone for grading.

A bit selfish of me really, in not wanting to be identified as the teacher of the 'borderline' student.


Mick

i agree some do not train as they should but my son loves to spar he started as soon as he got his yellow belt and was with me every sunday for atleast 8 months at senior sensei training taken by the regional manager,in that time he graded from blue to red ready for his brown, the main reason i gave up training was because the regional manager had a complaint from a sensei not sure who no one would tell me if they knew, having to spar my son they thought they wheren't learning anything, at the time he was training with the senseis he ran 4th in kata and 4th in sparing in the state tornament only beaten by nas people(and females he just cann't go hard with a female incase he makes a mistake he is terrified he will hurt them) as a result of the complain he was told he could only train with me on sundays when he needed to be assessed, on the up side my son was talked to by a great many of the senseis that knew what was happening and they told him they where happy to train with him. but this happening to a boy that gave up friends birthday parties and all sorts of other thing just to show he wanted to train there was the finnal straw, we are now back so he can complete his black belt then who know's?. he went to every senimar and always ended up in the kata sessions with myself and 4 or 5 other people tops being taught by the regional manager the black belt or higher katas, in sparring he was taught to go as hard as his sparing partener went and try and let the lower belts do most of the attacking and work on his defense, maybe the sensei should have been taught this lesson and not been a prima dona, sorry but after 2 years i'm still real p****d off about this, if not for my son harping on about going back i doubt myself or my 3 children would have returned to gkr, there are many more styles out there that will reward a kid for there efforts not kick them in the guts

Is it not the case that when you spar you either learn from the person you are sparring, let them learn from you, or both? I've always hated the complaints about sparring kids or lower grades because "I don't learn anything".

It provides the opportunity to try out different things in sparring and to let the other person have the chance to learn some of the things you've picked up, doesn't it?


Mick

i must agree i love to spar the higher belts, but i also get alot of enjoyment out of sparing lower belts that will listen. you get to see them improve week in week out knowing you are part of it in some small way.( it's always a great thrill when you see them use something you taught them work one someone else even better if they can get it to work on you) and as for sparing kids what can you say, they seem to throw combo's from all sorts of wierd and wounderful positions, (i wish i could do some of them) and at times they are nearly impossible to block your only option is to move out the way, when that happens and you tell them well done the look on there faces is priceless well worth all the low kicks ect you have coped to get them there. just my thoughts but i know others feel the same way, because i have seen it time and time again, it is a pity a few spoil it with there selfish atittude be they sensei's or students. lol i know i'v spelt (there) wrong many times but memory block sorry and i'm writing this reply inbetween getting run of my feet sorry

Phew - Fang, man you need some paragraphing!

Hope the boy gets through it okay. Seen some holier than thou types also, only hope you and he can get past the crap and enjoy your training

para what? lol and one of my big sisters is a english teacher in senior high school.np with the holy people now i just ignore them, i never pratise the higher kata's in the dojo before class now, so if one asks me to show them something i just say i'v forgotten it.

ok deano that was just for you :thumbgrin: i just got home from training had a great session got to take the kids for a bit then take sparring. i hurt my back earlyer today a another training session so i had a light one but a lot of fun.

Ohmygawd, this board is full of old fogies... I feel so young around you all. So young! Thanks people!

Anywaaay, I don't think age matters that much. In China, from what I've read, most children are taught martial arts from a very young age. I think it's a mandatory thing over there. Just look at Bruce Lee, Jet Li, Jackie Chan. All of those guys trained from an early age, I think, and they still trained at a later stages of their lives.

But, I don't think any of those guys were graded with 'belt colours', so there probably wasn't any of this "I want to grade to this belt, and this belt, and then this belt". It was mostly about perfecting technique and stuff.

And most kids that I see training in GKR deserve the high belt ranks that they have. Perfect technique, awesome flexibility. I wish I could lift my leg over my shoulder or do the full splits. I'll just blame it on the arthritis in my knees and ankles.

Rant over...

i agree with what you say about the techique ect and there not beening any belts so to speak of in china, there in lays the problem with the belt system, give anyone something to chase as a sign of their progress, be it adults or children they will want to get as high up as they can, and to ask a kid to stay at the same level for up to 3 years is a bit much to expect i'd say, but i could be wrong and my wife tells me i am very often one more thing brodius leave the old out youngin elder statesman is fine refined gentleman even, but old fogies mmmmmm not the same feel lol. better than old fart but :thumbwink:

Fang
sounds like we have a lot in common,the problems you have had with regards to your son and training,i too have experienced.Hope u get through it and come out with that coveted black belt.
My son in the end went to another style(1 because of the way he was treated, 2 because they did weapons,and that was something that interested him.)Sam now splits his time between the two styles,i felt GKR pushed him away to a certain extent,through lack of thought.
However in the long run it has done Sam the world of good,as he will be a black belt in two different styles by the age of 12 to 13.It has opened his eyes to the different styles around and helped him on his martial arts journey.Being only 8 yrs old Sam is currently a brown belt in GKR and is soon to be graded to green in Tang Soo Do.(green, blue ,red ,red and 1 black stripe, black.
With regards to training with Senseis i was told only senseis children could train with the senseis and that was due to childminding issues,(in our region anyway)but i dont count 14 year olds as childminding issues legally from 13 they can look after thereselves for a while anyway.one rule for one etc.
Victoria and Sam were both GKR mad and still are to a certain degree,however as children they seem to be treated with less importance than adults,within GKR.As high grades that they have earnt,(and not just done the time) they deserve as much consideration and respect as adults.ie Shihans visit come train with Shihan an experience you wont forget.Children under 12 were with Shihan for half an hour then sent into a back hall to play games with a rm then came out for another half hour of shihan talking.Their was about 4 brown belts amongst a massive group of white to green belts in that group.Yet white and yellow belt adults were allowed to stay and train the entirety with Shihan.Everyone is entitled to first class training,but if the class had to be split then people that had obviously committed time and effort to reach a certain grade should have been considerd first,and not just tucked away in some back hall because of there age.
Reading this may just sound like a load of complaints against GKR, NOT COMPLAINTS VALID POINTS IN MY OPINION,The children still train in GKR and this style has given them so much, it has started them off on there martial arts journey and for that we will always be thankful.As in most big organisations there will be problems,overall GKR is a good club,Hopefully we will all learn from our experiences and this will make us all stronger.
regards
Nigel :thumbwink:

I'm not from GKR, but from what I've read so far it's VERY rare for a child younger than 13 years to grade to black belt...

yes?

I study a form of kung fu and the children learn slightly different things to the adults, in their own classes, with their own grading system.

My point is that younger children grade up to a junior black sash and then their full adult black sash (though there are few, if any, junior black sashes so far).
They are given recognition for their commitment, their level of understanding and ability, while taking into account the child's age.

Maybe it would be worthwhile for GKR to introduce a junior black belt, then REgrade them to their full black belt when they "come of age".

Just a thought...

By the way...

Our junior age is 15 years...

Buttercup
In Tang Soo Do if you are good enough u r old enough. there are 10 year old black belts in this style.
GKR here in the UK have graded children to shodan Ho at the age of 10,(so im told)However these gradings are very few and far between.
Some people beleive that grading children at a young age is wrong as they dont have the maturity required.Some styles have set an age limit because of this,of which i understand. However all people are different,some can be mature at a young age,and some at 14 to 15 are not as mature as my 8 year old.Everyones different and i beleive that should be taken into consideration,when assesing a young Karate ka for grading to Shodan Ho.Also i feel u need to look at the childrens background,if the child comes from a loving family with full parental support it is unlikely that the child would missuse his art.
When talking about maturity lets not be fooled into thinking an 8 yr old is mature,of course there not,but some have enough intelligence and common sense to understand what Karate is about,and we shouldnt judge every book by the cover.
For me im quite happy for Sam to wait until hes 12, 13, 15 or whatever to grade to shodan Ho cos boy will he be good.
Im not sure about having a junior grade b belt,how does everyone else feel about that?
Victoria(age11) and Sam(age 8) have worked just as hard as the adults and probably harder in a lot of cases to acheive their grade.
Thanks for your thoughts
Nigel :thumbwink:

For what’s it worth, I think most children under 6 or 7 are too young to seriously train in any sport. That does not mean they should not do it, just do it in a more playful environment. And of course there are always exceptions, and it’s great to see those children so dedicated in the Dojo. :thumbwink:

On the subject of “TOO OLD”, no one is ever too old to do anything. Just watch the Senior Veterans at tournaments. I was 51 when I started karate, 3 years ago. Since then I lost about 35kg, found a few muscles I never knew I had, learned some karate, met a lot of interesting and mostly great people and I gained some flexibility, ( I can kick to almost knee hight now ). I even won a few medals at tournaments.

I’m not as quick and my reflexes are a lot slower then most of the younger guys I train with, but I don’t compare myself to them. I compare myself to how I have changed and improved myself in the last 6 month. I don’t try to keep up with 18 – 20 year olds, although I sometimes forget I’m not that age anymore. I enjoy my training and go as hard and fast as I can. I’m not out to prove that I can keep up with everyone. But sometimes it’s satisfying to see that I’m still going when some younger guys give up. Maybe I’m just to stubborn to stop.

I’m just trying to say, keep going, at any age.

:thumbwink: Good for you Willsc!
Agree about not trying to keep up with those younger/fitter/more flexible, although just one time I wish theyd realise why we cant keep up sometimes

You have to learn your own limits as well as your assets.

You may not be as flexible but you might be stronger. You may not be as strong but you might be faster. You may not be as fast but you might have more stamina.

Once someone learns their limits they can work to extend those limits though in some instances they may be bound by them.

The key here, or one of the keys, is to not compete on someone else's terms but to learn how to make them compete on your terms. Like in sparring, if you fight the way your opponent likes to fight you will probably lose, you're sparring on their terms rather than yours.

I'm not particularly quick when it comes to sparring, so I use what I can do to the best advantage.


Mick

Thanks for that comment sionnagh.

I'm not sure if GKR does this or if you have to work it out for yourself...(I've never really seen how karate works), but in the style of Kung Fu that I learn there are different paths that you can take on your journey.

Everyone starts out the same and learns the same basic movements and body mechanics, but once you know those basics moves there is more of an emphasis on your own body and what it is capable of doing.

For instance, those with an "average" body size, "average" age and ability (that would be me) we are taught the 'main stream' forms, techniques and sparring drills.

Those people with more lean figures, or are highly flexible go on to learn more of the acrobatic forms and techniques etc.

Those with larger body structures, less stamina, older age etc tend to learn more of the hand forms (similar to tai chi but faster), and less aerobic sparring drills.

Basically we are taught with in our own bodies limitations.

ALSO, with that, there will still be techniques and drill that would be unnatural or inefficient to ourselves. We are taught ways of deveoping these techniques for ourselves and adapting them so that we are able to do them efficiently and naturally or instinctively.

Like you said... we all have our limitations as well as our assests. It's just a matter of applying them.

In the wider karate world there are many kata. Some are taught to everyone as core kata. Depending which school you train with you might learn the Pinan/Naihanchi or the Heian/Tekki sets, Sanchin & Tensho.
As well as whatever required kata are taught there may be optional kata which you can learn depending on your abilities/limitations. Not so much the "one size fits all" approach.

Of course, this all depends on who you train with - their structure and objectives in teaching.


Mick