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Matt
Okay I confused myself with even the title...

Was watching Survivor (shaddup... I was bored) tuesday and they showed a contestant doing Naifanchi Shodan while he was stuck by himself. It was performed vastly differently to the way we do it, with staccato, snappy, abrupt movements as opposed to a "bit more flow" for want of a better expression. This got me thinking - does practicing the kata in such different ways affect the application? Is kata actually practicing application or simply a "human book" to remind us what they are? If so (to echo an old post here) should one customise kata to benefit their own physique?
TheophanusW
I think the timing of kata is primarily due to the bunkai you see in it (or you are told is in it).

Having said that, let me say this: the performance of kata can be changed by an instructor, either through mis-interpretation, modern and updated knowledge of the body or a shortcoming in the instructor's technique, for example.

If I created a style called XYZ Karate, and I couldn't kick high and wasn't a fast mover, by the time my students students did the kata, there would be no high kicks in it and all the movements would be slow.

For me, I don't think kata should change or be customised to benefit one's physique, that way it stays as something to strive for, something to do better and something to pick apart and try to understand. It gives us a goal to aim for.

The philosophy (for want of a better word) behind kata has changed a lot over the years, from the turn of last century when it changed from person to person and wasn't considered terribly important, to 100 years later when it is something we grade on.

For me, kata is an enigma, something we can continually strive to do better at and understand better. I epitomises our karate journey, just when you think you understand the move, you look at it in a different light and the journey starts again. Just when you get the flow correct, you realise that by this time your opponent would be under your feet or they've retreated more quickly than anticipated.

OK, brain rambling now, need coffee...
mike flanagan
QUOTE (Matt @ Apr 6 2006, 03:14 PM) *
Okay I confused myself with even the title...

Was watching Survivor (shaddup... I was bored) tuesday and they showed a contestant doing Naifanchi Shodan while he was stuck by himself. It was performed vastly differently to the way we do it, with staccato, snappy, abrupt movements as opposed to a "bit more flow" for want of a better expression. This got me thinking - does practicing the kata in such different ways affect the application? Is kata actually practicing application or simply a "human book" to remind us what they are? If so (to echo an old post here) should one customise kata to benefit their own physique?


I’m not convinced that different people should do kata differently because of differences in physique. You might want to experiment with different dynamics in a kata as you progress through your practice, but I don’t think that’s particularly dependent on physique.

As for the snappy staccato version of Naifanchi, well you’d be surprised at how differently the dynamics of a kata can be practiced in different systems. My own understanding is that Shorin Ryu techniques should generally be performed with a whip-like feel to them - this should certainly find its way through to practice of Naifanchi, the fundamental Shorin kata. This method of practice would probably get you thrown out of many a kata competition though.

Mike
Matt
Thanks for the comments - I guess the 'physique' side of the post was an aside from my main question as it had been brought up before.
The variations in 'performance' - does this affect the application? To look at it the two side by side you wouldn't think it was the same kata unless you were paying attention. Does this mean you would be thinking different techniques for one version? or perhaps practicing them incorrectly? and - who's to say?
mike flanagan
QUOTE (Matt @ Apr 6 2006, 06:47 PM) *
Thanks for the comments - I guess the 'physique' side of the post was an aside from my main question as it had been brought up before.
The variations in 'performance' - does this affect the application? To look at it the two side by side you wouldn't think it was the same kata unless you were paying attention. Does this mean you would be thinking different techniques for one version? or perhaps practicing them incorrectly? and - who's to say?


Different techniques? Yes, I'm sure that thinking of a grappling technique, for example, might make you want to do the movement with a longer period of tension than with a striking technique.

As to practising incorrectly, yes perhaps. Might be better to say that there's one way to do a kata and - in someone's opinion - an even better way to do it. Personally I will give more weight to one person's opinion than another. But if something really is better it should be demonstrably so.

Also I think there is more than just one valid way to generate power. There are several at least. So I do different kata in different ways in order to emphasise particular principles. For example, I do the 5 Pinan's dynamically in a different way to how I practice the older classical kata. I'm also likely to change the way I practice kata as my understanding changes over time.

Mike
Mel
QUOTE (Matt @ Apr 6 2006, 02:14 PM) *
Okay I confused myself with even the title...

Was watching Survivor (shaddup... I was bored) tuesday and they showed a contestant doing Naifanchi Shodan while he was stuck by himself. It was performed vastly differently to the way we do it, with staccato, snappy, abrupt movements as opposed to a "bit more flow" for want of a better expression. This got me thinking - does practicing the kata in such different ways affect the application? Is kata actually practicing application or simply a "human book" to remind us what they are? If so (to echo an old post here) should one customise kata to benefit their own physique?


I think I may be totally out of my depths responding to this post, but I have had a couple of glasses of wine and been reading over some of these posts, and thought why not?

I guess from reading these posts, my simplistic opinion, is, of course as individuals we would personalise kata to suit our own physicue, its like everything else, we all have individual ways of walking and moving so we would also put our own individual quirks and movements into the way we practise our kata and karate woulsn't we?

Cheers beerchug.gif
Melly
Susan
I was just flicking channels in a state of boredom and caught the last couple of minutes of this survivor show Matt was talking about...

This guy had fallen ill and was removed from the island not to return...

In the credits of the show (as I was about to flick again) I caught site of an oldish guy (I assumed it was the ill man) doing what at first looked like the Haka (a Maori war dance)...

After a few seconds I realised it was in fact Naifanchi Shodan...

Now for those that have seen a Haka performed you would understand what Matt means about "staccato, snappy, abrupt movements"...

It's not at all done in the way that I am familiar with...
Nooms
QUOTE (Matt @ Apr 6 2006, 02:14 PM) *
Okay I confused myself with even the title...

Was watching Survivor (shaddup... I was bored) tuesday and they showed a contestant doing Naifanchi Shodan while he was stuck by himself. It was performed vastly differently to the way we do it, with staccato, snappy, abrupt movements as opposed to a "bit more flow" for want of a better expression. This got me thinking - does practicing the kata in such different ways affect the application? Is kata actually practicing application or simply a "human book" to remind us what they are? If so (to echo an old post here) should one customise kata to benefit their own physique?

I found myself thinking much the same things last night after watching a performance of shisochin. I foolishly mentioned this to someone else online and we spent the next 5 hours or so watching kata videos. If kata is a set of exercises designed to teach applications, then should it really matter how it is actually performed? Whether move "X" is a grappling technique, a throw, a block, a strike or a way to disguise a fart in a lift - why does it matter? There are any number of ways to interpret the purpose of the technique, depending on your flavour of art, and regardless of performance, these applications are still there.
Ah, it is too easy to get side tracked and turn this into a post of a thousand questions and ramblings.

Why does the visual performance of a kata matter (grading aside)?
Is THIS why it takes 5 years to learn a kata? Cos the actual performance should be open to personal interpretation of the applications that fit the student?
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