Hi Folks,
Went to my first ever Tai Chi class tonight,
I must admit I didn't really know what to expect - I think I vision of people saying "Oh, it's the same as Kung-Fu only really slow........"
Having never done Kung-Fu, I can't really comment (Although I have been beaten up by someone who does Kung-Fu...Hi Sue ...), But, I did find it's good for breathing techniques.

The class lasted an hour and a half and we started off with ten minutes of breathing exercises, then a couple of exercises which seemed familiar to me (Namely something which resembled yoko uraken but without the resting hand chambered...)
Then the Instructor led me and my friend through the first couple of moves of the first Form - sorry, names escape me at the moment.
Again certain moves were familiar to me, probably through the chinese influence of the goju kata i`ve learnt.
I did have trouble relaxing though - my karate muscle memory kept on kicking in and I kept on tensing up, but that's something i've got to work on.... early days yet.
The Instructor was very patient with us, and demonstrated some applications within the form - which I was very interested in.
The class ended with some "winding-down" exercises, again - more breathing.
And seeing as how I liked what I was doing.....next class in two weeks.......

Oooh, a mellow Tombat!

Sounds great Tom.

Just a couple of comments, you do realise now that Sue is going to beat you up next time you are here?

The muscle tensing is a hard habit to break, tends to go against everything we are taught. Did a belly dancing class once where the teacher kept on telling me to relax and kept hitting my knees with a stick because I needed to "loosen up".

Might have to try this tai chi class one day..... soon

Hey Tom...

great to see you trying new things... And no... Tai chi isnt what most people think it is....

The breathing exercises you do before and after class are more than likely Qi Gong techniques... teaching you about dynamic and reverse breathing and how to enhance the level of qi in your body... We use these techniques at the end of all of our kung fu classes to cool down and focus on healing the body after we just "thrashed" it...

Do you know what style of tai chi you are doing? if not can you find out please? (yes tai chi has different styles aswell)...

Anyway... keep at it... the techniques and forms you learn there are going to be useful for you with your sparring etc...

Can't wait to come up against you again.....

Hi Sue,
Yes, I remember the Instructor saying that he incorporated some Qi Gong methods in his class.
And No, I haven't a clue what style of Tai Chi I'm doing (or trying to do!)
But I'll ask at my next class - BUT I do know that the Instructor did kung-fu before starting to teach in Tai-Chi, so I'll quiz him a little more.

Sue? How much do you know about the similarities between Kung-Fu and Tai-Chi? Seems I'm gonna havta do some research here.......

The muscle memory thing is going to be a hard habit to get out of though, I guess it's just habit..

Been practising the opening moves of the Tai-Chi form during the day whilst at work (My boss ( ex-shotokan) is used to me breaking into kata every now and then - once stopped to correct me during bassai dai:) )

I know I won't have the moves anywhere near perfect - but i,m just trying to make the moves"flow" for now.

Well I aint Sue but I do know a bit about kung fu and taichi. Kung fu means "man's or woman's work".You can have kung fu in almost anything but when people refer to it in the West they are usually referring to a specific style of Chinese martial art. Examples are Shaolin,Wing Chun,Pray Mantis,etc.These tend to be "external" styles whilst Tai chi (taiji) ,Xingyi and Bagua are classified as Neija or "internal" styles.The main difference between these arts is how power is generated.

All present styles of Tai chi orginate from Chen style.The major styles are Chen,Yang,Wu and Sun.Yang tends to be the most common style taught in the West.A simplified 24 step form is often taught to beginners.

The best way to learn these arts is to first learn the basic pattern of movement and then add the internal principles a bit at a time. Relaxation will come once your body learns to recognise the state.Like anything it takes time.

Not much at all im afraid matey....

I do know that in my school the style taught has recently changed as my instructor has become more advanced...

If i remember corretly he used to teach the "chen" style, but since a recent trip to hong kong (he still goes to hong kong every few months to train with his masters) it has changed...

The style he now teaches is not one of those mentioned by tony... but i dont remember what it is called... It was suggested to my instructor due to the style of kung fu he teaches... the tai chi now in the syllabus compliments the kung fu style taught with slow, relaxed and flowing movements, but also having a sudden "Spurt" of high powered fast and dynamic movements to 'finish off' the opponent...

I've only ever tried it breifly so I can't comment much on it... It is very amazing to watch though... the way they go from complete relaxation to complete force and power with in miliseconds....

would love to have the time to give it more of a chance...


let us know everything tom, and hopefully you will be able to show us some stuff when you come over next...

Its called "fajin" in Chinese.We use it a lot in Xingyi but not in our Tai chi form.As you say the body goes from relaxation to tension in the blink of an eye but also present are opposite or contradictory forces.What acutually happens is the body is accelerated to great speed over few centimeters and then suddenly stops.Its a bit like a car slamming on its brakes and everything being thrown foward.The tension used isn't the same as the "kime" that is used in most karate styles. Practicing Standing Post is a major requirement for cultivating fajin.

Erm... for the less educated of us around here, can you Anglicise and explain this a little more please?

Fajin = explosive power.

Kime = focus at the end of a punch.Used in GKR.


These articles help explain the training process.Whilst they refer to Yiquan the end result is the same in the type of power generated.Fali is the same as fajin,just a different name for the same thing.

http://www.yiquan.com.pl/artykuly/engtraining.html

If you go to the home page you will find a free e-book on Zhan Zhuang to download.Its well written and covers the first three stages.

Thanks for that.
Some good reading in there, although it will be a while before I finish reading it...

Having gone to quite a few classes now, I`m slowly getting to grips with it, but i`m finding that it`s alot harder to move very slowly than to move quickly - maybe i`m putting more thought into it, i`m not sure.
And it is Yang Style Tai Chi i`m doing, I`m being taught the 24-step form but I only really know up to "single whip" as to now.

I`ve found a useful link if anyone wants to know what all this is about....

http://giant.lakeheadu.ca/~wzhuang/taichi/24form.html

Cool link! And a comment from a noomette...
"He moves so slow they had time to draw him!" I have to say, it does look a lot like you!
Do these forms "mean" anything? Do they have applications?

Yes they have applications, My Instructor has shown me a few so far - but i`m really only dipping my toe in the waters so far.
If you look at Form 2 (Part the horses mane ) You`ll see a move that is found in Kata Saifa. I`m going to ask my instructor next week if the application found in Saifa can be used in this form of Tai-Chi.
He doesn`t have a background in karate though, only in Tai-Chi and Kung-Fu, which means that sometimes he'll be talking in english whilst i'm listening in french ( so to speak!)

....which raises the question of whether what you are doing is perhaps counterproductive to your continued progress?

Why would it be counter-productive?

Mike

Hmmm.... I`d say the breathing techniques shown to me so far, are proving beneficial.
I know I`m only doing a very basic form so far, but cross-training in Tai-Chi certainly has it`s advantages, I know I'm never going to wallop anyone in my class, but I think it makes up for that in other ways.

From my experience of cross training and discussions with an experienced practitioner (who may like to add to this ) , it feels as if you are taking two paths to the same goal. It can be assumed all practices have pretty much the same goal - being fundamentally self defence based - yet approach it from a different path. The more different the paths the harder for the brain/body to get the fundamentals of the concept as a whole, slowing overall progress.

....or it could just be that I'm getting old and unable to grasp more than one at a time

I can only say that training in tai chi has certainly benefited my karate, and vice versa. In reality there is much common ground between them, they simply emphasise different aspects of how to move and generate power correctly.

Mike

I guess I should say my post was based on cross training in TKD and karate, not tai chi, which I have never done. Perhaps it's something to look at.

Ah right, yes I can see that being counter-productive as they are so very similar but, at the same time have some stark differences. I can see the teachers in each style trying to pull you in different directions.

Mike

We`re heading towards the same goal, but taking different paths to it.
Matt, If you were to ask me what help Tai-Chi has given me in my kumite, I`d say it`s taught me how to relax more and focus on the elements in sparring.
But I can`t compare my Tai-Chi training to any other MA training i`ve had so far. Simply cos it`s just different.

Mike was right that TKD and Karate were similar enough for me to be comfortable with each, but different enough to be counterproductive in terms of technique. If I had me druthers I probably wouldnt have done TKD in hindsight.

Though that would have limited your experiences and you never know what good instruction is until you have a basis for comparison


Mick

Oh I had good instruction - 25 years experience can't be discounted... unless you were referring to yourself