I've been getting some advice from some BBs at senior training during kumite and on a couple of occasions, I have heard stories of how in the "good old days" they used to have contact sparring. I mean that guys used to go home with bloody-noses, black-eyes, blood-coming-out-from-between-their-teeth etc. My mental picture was guys punching each other in the head wearing nothing but foam mitts, and I thought: "that's insane!". One sensei jovially added the comment: "It hurt like hell, but boy, did you learn fast!"

I was sceptical about these sparring stories, but a white belt who has started with the club happened to mention that he trained with the club almost 20 years ago, and he confirmed (without my prompting) that they used to hit each other in sparring, including black belts with yellow belts!

I can only imagine that this is when GKR was a one-city enterprise, and insurance wasn't much of an issue. I can't help but wonder to myself that if I don't train thesame way these awesome BBs did "back in the day" then I won't be as tough or as skilled as them.

Does anybody have any experience with contact sparring?

When I started it was a bit more full on, but three broken arms in a short period bought about a massive review of sparring practices (hi fang if you're still reading ). It wasnt particularly pleasant just being given a set of mitts and told to go for it. No drills or even one step type practice first, just 6 weeks of basics and in you go.

I've done TKD contact sparring and had far less injuries than non contact, due to the nature of the protective equipment and the better experience of the partner (how many times have you heard people say it's a lot scarier sparring a yellow belt than a higher grade) plus the expectation they wont actually try to kill you

GKR has never been full contact in my time with the club. Back then, as with now, most injuries occured through crap ability, accidents, or people just not paying attention.

What has changed is the intensity of kumite exchange. The speed, power and intent of kumite has changed and GKR kumite these days is somewhat stylised and tournament pretty. Only the "older" black belts tend to engage in this sort of kumite these days and most people watching them usually go "wow they're going so strong!".

That more injuries used to occur is true. But that was because of the fine line between precision and overstepping the non-contact boundary. Yes semi-contact was far more prevalent 10+ years ago in GKR. But no it was never part of kumite to belt the crap out of eachother.

Kumite then compared to now was simply just a more realistic comparison of techniques

JC

My type of training has usually involved contact sparring of different varieties. From competition WTF Taekwondo to BJJ to weapons and reality based training, I have sparred in many ways. Looking back, I truly believe that the type of sparring you do should be dependent on the type of martial arts that you do and the reason that you are doing it.

In other words, why spar at all if you are into martial arts for things like self confidence and kata. You can do just as well without any actual contact. If you are ever only going to compete in non-contact situations I think you would be better off training for the type of competition that you will face and stick to non-contact. However if you are entering some type of contact sparring - then of course, train with contact. If you are training for self defence, then contact is of vital importance. It really all comes down to what you are training for and the system that you are training in. One is no better than the other but all take different mindsets and reasoning to be successful.

Whichever you do, all need to be approached with safety in mind, I have seen some pretty serious injuries when a person didn't understand the rules.

Yeah, yellow belts with strange scars on their faces...

I suppose if there are TKD clubs out there who can use protective gear successfully, then maybe GKR could try it as well, even on a small scale?

Also, one of the senseis who did contact sparring in the early years may be attempting his nidan this thursday and I would like to see if he clocks the ZD (or shihan?) ...He's certainly a tough little bloke.

Yes, especially male yellow belts, you can smell the testosterone, and that use up a lot of energy just jumping around. Its funny to watch, but so easy to injure them.

In my early days with GKR I broke someones finger and gave someone a blood nose from sparring a yellow belt...

In the early days, I also ended up with two broken toes and a sprained ankle, but that was courtesy of a sweep from a brown belt

Not if he wants to pass... grading sparring is a one way street

Hey Dale, wouldn't learning a martial art without including any sparring be a bit like learning another language without ever attempting to speak it?

No, I don't think so. At least not if you're talking about sparring in the usual Karate sense. Most Karate sparring has little or nothing to do with fighting or self-defence. Its so stylised that its of very little practical value. This kind of Karate is just a sport, its certainly not a way of preparing you to deal with real violence.

Mike

"Most Karate sparring". Does that disclude your own sparring (if you spar)? I think the stylising factor is part of the reason why I have taken an interest in contact sparring.

One example of what bugs me: When one person jabs punches the ribs and the other aims at the head. In non-contact the person aiming at the ribs usually gets there first, and believes they have done well when I believe they would likely be lying on the ground unconscious after the head punch hits.
Against a higher grade I have gone to the point of ignoring the jab and steeping in with a hook over their lead shoulder, but I couldn't thump them because we don't wear head gear, I just stood there with my fist pressed against their skull. Their resoponse later during the break was: "Well, I got in first didn't I".

I'm not using that as my justifcation for contact sparring, but it does frustrate me when I'm trying to learn practical skills and the other guy wants to play tag.

And no, I won't even consider kickboxing

I've done lots of that sort of sparring in the past - from light tig to quite rough. So I don't do it anymore myself, what few lessons it has to teach I think I've already learnt. Which is not to say that I'm great at sparring, but most of what you learn about is just how to play the game of sparring and I'm not interested in that.

I might encourage my own students to do at bit of it at some point but only when there aren't other more important priorities for them to work on - that doesn't seem to have happened yet. What 'sparring' we do engage in is quite different. I quite like what I call 'sticking sparring', in which you start with both pairs of forearms in contact and work at half-speed to strike and/or unbalance. Its unrealistic in a couple of ways (its slow and there are rules about remaining in contact) but it has many valuable lessons and allows strikes that would be dangerous in 'normal' sparring to be practiced quite safely.

I also like some of the drills of 'Mixed Martial Art' (MMA) training. Look up wrist-tie drills and various types of clinch drills. I particularly like groundwork for allowing you to use all sorts of strikes safely. Because you're in close contact you have a very good sense of where the opponent is and can distance your strikes much more accurately than in the 'free movement' range.



This is a difficult question. Would their body shot have prevented your follow-up punch from landing? Or at least taken a lot of the sting out of it? i think you have to make a judgement in each situation.

Ultimately, if you seek combat effectiveness and your willing to ask pertinent questions about what you're doing, you'll probably reach a point when you can longer engage in this game of tig - and your playmates won't want you to either because you don't play by the rules. It happened to me, it happened to my instructor.

I think its just a natural progression myself.

Mike

Wise words indeed, I figure that once I learn the lessons that sparring has to teach me I may move on like you say.

Re-read that people, that's an excellent point.

I don't know if Mike meant it in a negative way, but I firmly believe this to be true.

When your martial ability (eg. karate) reaches a point where you do not consciously adhere to defined rules without consciously having to think about them, this is a good thing.

It is more advanced that not thinking of your techniques within the rules.

When techniques come to you without thought....be they within the rules or without....you should consider this a sign of positive progression toward becoming a rounded martialist.

JC

Would it be appropriate to think that sport style sparring is a pretty good way to get a more nervous person introduced to the concept, and a great way to expose the unfamiliar to something as potentially disturbing as fighting another person?

I would have thought that practising prearranged drills would be a far better way to achieve this. We also practice a variety of semi-spontaneous and spontaneous sticking drills that, whilst its not their primary purpose, do serve to introduce nervous types to spontaneous combat in a gentle way that helps them relax into it rather than just tense up. I don't see sporty sparring as achieving that at all effectively (not having a dig at the concept, its just that this isn't what its for and its not the right tool for the job IMO).

Mike

I agree with mike, because my introduction into sparring was mclumsy and at times very fructrating, and still is very frustrating.

I find that being given partner drills and then going into something a little more freeform (eg hitting focus mitts) is better for kyu grades. I feel like I've gained more practical experience after doing this sort of exercise.

The problem with partner drills is they tend to have a now he does this you do this then this.... (from the sounds of it mike's are a bit different)

While sparring has its downsides, I would argue that it has some very valuable things to teach everyone.

1. Timing

2. Distancing

3. The ability to use your techniques in a non rehearsed situation (not something to be underrated )

4. The understanding of how people react to different things you do wether its a punch or just your posture. This is handy to learn how to mask a technique for instance.

5. Learning how to adapt your techniques to suit the presented situation.

6. Learning to deal with someone who is intent of hitting you, both the physical and mental conditioning is important.

I’m sure there are more but that will do for now.

It depends. Some are fixed, some are spontaneous. Even some of the fixed drills though don't fall into the
'he does this you do this then this' category, as if you do your bit properly the other person is not balanced and so couldn't respond with the next bit anyway. I think fixed drills are of great value. But I believe they must be complemented by spontaneous drills. I prefer spontaneous drills to actual sparring, generally, as they allow you to safely practice with and against techniques that you would not see in sparring - either because they are sub-optimal or because they are just to dangerous to do in sparring (kicks to the knee for example).

Mike