Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Making your own history
Karatedo forum > The Dojo > Karate Talk
andyg
The following is from the Blitz magazine, vol 19, No. 10. It is an extract from the third article on GKR & Robert Sullivan.
QUOTE
"Sullivan's own grading history has also come under fire. He was last formally graded in 1971, to 2nd Dan, by Keishinkan founder, Master Masanao Takasaka, under whom he studied in Japan. Having since graded many instructors above 2nd Dan anointed Stacey Karetsian as GKR's first Shihan (5th Dan) in 2000, the obvious question - one that's perhaps been the sharpest arrow in the quivers of his critics - is, how can a 2nd Dan grade someone to 5th Dan? Sullivan has never awarded himself a grade, but had an honourary 7th Dan bestowed on him four years ago by Karetsian and other senior GKR instructors.

"It was just their way of saying, we want to recognise you, and give you this honourary grade as your senior guys," says Sullivan. "I've had opportunites to join with other big organisations in Japan, with whom I've been a bit pally, and because of who we are as a club, I could pick up a high grade certificate, but it really wouldn't mean anything."

Sullivan doesn't name the organisations, but says "they have legitimate links with traditional karate organisations". He says he could train with them for a few months in order to get graded to a higher level, but is not inclined to do something that would simply be "political - for looks".

The last time he had any official recognition of his abilities outside his own organisation was in 1986 when he joined the Australian Karate Federation, the country's largest governing body for karate. They would not accept GKR as a member without a record of his rank on their forms and at their request, Sullivan assessed his standard as being of "around 5th Dan". This was initially accepted, though some time later the AKF revoked GKR's membership.

Criticisms over self-grading have been levelled at many successful instructors, including others who have created martial arts history in Australia, such as Bob Jones, also a former student of Goju Kai. Like Jones, Sullivan kept training with his students and peers after severing formal ties with his traditional club. He's been perfecting his karate for 40 years now, but how can so many years of training be formally evaluated without the judgement of those who've gone before?

"I guess the proof of the pudding is this: Stacey is 5th Dan in GKR and we have a few 4th Dans and more 3rd Dans, etc. and we're just creating our own history. People can say, well, where do you get the authority - and i say, well, I'm doing it anyway," Sullivan chuckles. "To some people, from the outside it can look Micky-Mouse, but as time rolls on, people can look at Stacey [Karetsian] ...look at the other guys and look at their karate for what it really is and - in real, practical reality - look at the character of these guys and at what GKR is producing as a historical reality. And then 15 or 20 years later, everyone goes, well, the karate really is genuine, and what started off seeming illegitimate in somebody's mind becomes legitimate."


I don't post this to be a GKR bash. I'm actually a GKR student. I've put it up for discussion because i'm in two minds.

First mind - OK, cool. He's making his own history. The older styles would have started out in a similar way. that is, the founder would have split away or studied elsewhere, and then moulded his own style. As he studied/trained/explored his own stlye more, he progressed up, or made, his own Dan grades.

Second mind - Holy ****, the founder of my style is officially only a 2nd Dan.

Any thoughts ? (Without getting into a style bashing thread, hopefully)

cheers

andy G

PS. The quote has been reproduced to the best of my ability typing with a broken finger B) D@mn karate seminar.
leela
Is it possible that Warrn can post the whole article for us like he did last time....pretty please with lots of sugar on top????

Then we can make comments on the whole thing once we have the whole article.
Warren
Leela

I do have the Mag, but not a scanner at the moment, I will post it as soon as I am able

Warren
Wanderer
'Honourary 7th Dan'
I might grade my mates to honourary shodan if they do the same for me. It would be nice to wear a snappy black belt.

A professional association kicking someone out is cause for concern in any field. The standards are set for a reason. There must have been something else to it.

My criticism would not so much be lack of grade, but lack of training. He's apparently been training himself for 20 years apart from a trip to Japan every two or three years, so wheres the exposure to new ideas? From all accounts its still stuck in 70's regimented line work. Others have developed so maybe the techniques are outdated as well?

Its all very well to say "people can look at Stacey [Karetsian], look at the other guys and look at their karate for what it really is", but he had already trained for many years in Shotokan, and kept his grade despite the rules.

I dunno. It all comes across a bit arrogant to me.
Tom
QUOTE
and because of who we are as a club, I could pick up a high grade certificate, but it really wouldn't mean anything.

This worries me slightly, can't really explain why. I'll have to see the whole article to get the bigger picture - it's gotta be floating around online somewhere...
Sionnagh
Between

QUOTE (andyg @ Oct 23 2005, 10:03 AM) *
The following is from the Blitz magazine, vol 19, No. 10. It is an extract from the third article on GKR & Robert Sullivan.
QUOTE

The last time he had any official recognition of his abilities outside his own organisation was in 1986 when he joined the Australian Karate Federation, the country's largest governing body for karate. They would not accept GKR as a member without a record of his rank on their forms and at their request, Sullivan assessed his standard as being of "around 5th Dan". This was initially accepted, though some time later the AKF revoked GKR's membership.



and

QUOTE (Wanderer @ Oct 28 2005, 11:43 AM) *
A professional association kicking someone out is cause for concern in any field. The standards are set for a reason. There must have been something else to it.


I don't know about in 1986 but now the AKF requires a club's chief instructor to hold minimum 3rd dan as well as branch instructor being minimum 1st dan.

Anyone writing an account of past events would put their own spin on it. Nothing extraordinary in that. I'd guess that only people involved at the time with the decision to reject GKRs membership would really know the truth and anything else is just speculation.

coffeepaper.gif
Mick
andyg
Now that Warren has posted the scanned article, can i resurrect my original post?

thanks warren

http://www.gkr.net.au/forum/index.php?showtopic=1335

any thoughts ?

cheers andyG
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2012 Invision Power Services, Inc.