Hi Folks,
This answer to this one is probably blindingly obvious, but it's something I've never really thought about.
Why do the Taikyodo Kata always start with a block and a left turn? The block I can understand, but the turn? Is this because the originators of the kata were right-handed? and thus, was easier to block which the left and strike with the right?
Any ideas?
Full Version: Taikyoku Kata
Maybe because it flows better?
I don't know...I've never thought about it either. Just taken it as it approaches...
I don't know...I've never thought about it either. Just taken it as it approaches...
Have you tried doing it 'left-handed'?
Yes, I have. I`m left-handed anyway - but I found it quite tricky. I`ll have to have a go at reversing Saifa or Bassai-dai, and see where that leads.
as instructor (and dance teacher) im rather experienced at performing kata (and dances) in reverse to offer a mirror image for them to copy..... is different feeling thats for sure
Hi
I'd go with the Right handed-ness of it all. If you look at the kata all over , doing the left turn start, you end up with more left-handed blocks, and more right handed punches.
If you start going to the right with a block, it ends up the other way. More right hand blocks, more left hand strikes.
It may be that lefties are just discriminated against again.
just my 2 cents.
andyG
I'd go with the Right handed-ness of it all. If you look at the kata all over , doing the left turn start, you end up with more left-handed blocks, and more right handed punches.
If you start going to the right with a block, it ends up the other way. More right hand blocks, more left hand strikes.
It may be that lefties are just discriminated against again.
just my 2 cents.
andyG
Thats possibly true. There has to be a definite explaination why this is so, though.
I`m out of ideas to be honest.
I`m out of ideas to be honest.
Hi again,
Some more thoughts
I remember when i studied Tai Chi that the first two 'forms' i learnt both started with a similar step to the left. And i remember watching a Tae Kwon Do class where there basic kata(?) also followed the pattern of the taiyoku kata (the imaginery I).
just to throw a spanner in the works, i had a 'play' with the taiyoku kata.
the number of right handed strikes is more due to the 'run' up the 'I', where you block and then punch 3 times. This give the higher number of RH strikes overall.
If you were to block and only punch twice (along the I), the number of punches (and blocks) is the same for each hand. However, it makes all the turns vary. In the standard 3 punch form, all your 180 turns end in a right block, and the 90 and 270 turns end in a left block. Basically, in the kata, all the turns are the same combination. However, if you make it only 2 punches up the 'I', you end up with a mixture of turns. You 270 to both L & R. There is a 180 where u end up blocking with the LH. And you have a 90 turn blocking RH. This would give a better result in training techniques on both sides of the body.
So to add to your question, why do we do 3 strikes when 2 would allow more variation in turns and blocks?
just some more thoughts
andy G
Some more thoughts
I remember when i studied Tai Chi that the first two 'forms' i learnt both started with a similar step to the left. And i remember watching a Tae Kwon Do class where there basic kata(?) also followed the pattern of the taiyoku kata (the imaginery I).
just to throw a spanner in the works, i had a 'play' with the taiyoku kata.
the number of right handed strikes is more due to the 'run' up the 'I', where you block and then punch 3 times. This give the higher number of RH strikes overall.
If you were to block and only punch twice (along the I), the number of punches (and blocks) is the same for each hand. However, it makes all the turns vary. In the standard 3 punch form, all your 180 turns end in a right block, and the 90 and 270 turns end in a left block. Basically, in the kata, all the turns are the same combination. However, if you make it only 2 punches up the 'I', you end up with a mixture of turns. You 270 to both L & R. There is a 180 where u end up blocking with the LH. And you have a 90 turn blocking RH. This would give a better result in training techniques on both sides of the body.
So to add to your question, why do we do 3 strikes when 2 would allow more variation in turns and blocks?
just some more thoughts
andy G
I have to agree with the bias toward the right side. These kata and the related others essentialy teach a simple introduction of block with the left and counter with the right. Are not most people right handed (who matter? 
).
I realise this isn't the right place to suggest so....but the katana was rarely worn for a left-handed draw either.
Such is life B)
JC
).I realise this isn't the right place to suggest so....but the katana was rarely worn for a left-handed draw either.
Such is life B)
JC
Some people also regard basic kata as a way of teaching new students to learn how to move both hands and feet without forgetting to draw a breath - be able to walk and chew gum at the same time so to speak.
Mick
Mick
QUOTE
Why do the Taikyodo Kata always start with a block and a left turn?
Is it a block? could it be something else that explains a left turn?
QUOTE (WombatOneSix)
Hi Folks,
This answer to this one is probably blindingly obvious, but it's something I've never really thought about.
Why do the Taikyodo Kata always start with a block and a left turn? The block I can understand, but the turn? Is this because the originators of the kata were right-handed? and thus, was easier to block which the left and strike with the right? Any ideas?
This answer to this one is probably blindingly obvious, but it's something I've never really thought about.
Why do the Taikyodo Kata always start with a block and a left turn? The block I can understand, but the turn? Is this because the originators of the kata were right-handed? and thus, was easier to block which the left and strike with the right? Any ideas?
QUOTE (Boz)
Hi Tom,
You mean Taikyoku kata I guess. There are 12 of them in the original series and they were created in the late 1930's after the Pinan kata which Itosu introduced into the Okinawan PE curriculum in the 1900's. The Pinan kata have a similar embusen (geometrical ground pattern) so most likely they were the model for the Taikyoku kata.
The reason Itosu started the kata with a left turn has been a matter of interest for those that like to research karate. Shurite liked to begin their kata in a right leg forward kamae (defensive posture) as did Nahate. Tomarite preferred the left leg forward position. Shuri, Naha and Tomari are towns fairly close together but whose karate was identified this way for political reasons.
Itosu must have considered balancing the kata more evenly by working the right and left sides in mirror image for PE purposes. He may have preferred to start with the left side to enable a little right hand bias as most kata do have a right hand bias and most people are right handed. That is my opinion but it could be wrong. The early kata did not always start with a block but because karate was promoted as a self defense art it (block first) may have become a marketing tool smile.gif Anyway I think your comments were pretty close to the mark.
Cheers,
Boz
You mean Taikyoku kata I guess. There are 12 of them in the original series and they were created in the late 1930's after the Pinan kata which Itosu introduced into the Okinawan PE curriculum in the 1900's. The Pinan kata have a similar embusen (geometrical ground pattern) so most likely they were the model for the Taikyoku kata.
The reason Itosu started the kata with a left turn has been a matter of interest for those that like to research karate. Shurite liked to begin their kata in a right leg forward kamae (defensive posture) as did Nahate. Tomarite preferred the left leg forward position. Shuri, Naha and Tomari are towns fairly close together but whose karate was identified this way for political reasons.
Itosu must have considered balancing the kata more evenly by working the right and left sides in mirror image for PE purposes. He may have preferred to start with the left side to enable a little right hand bias as most kata do have a right hand bias and most people are right handed. That is my opinion but it could be wrong. The early kata did not always start with a block but because karate was promoted as a self defense art it (block first) may have become a marketing tool smile.gif Anyway I think your comments were pretty close to the mark.
Cheers,
Boz
posts lost due to database restore.
I wonder if the apparent prediliction toward the right side has any relation to lefties being seen as possessed by demons or just plain evil, or the "left is war, right is peace" symbolism in kung-fu?
It`s an interesting theory.... But I reckon its just that most people are right-handed and thus its just natural bias.
Anyone got any theories on this?
Anyone got any theories on this?
*minor resurrection*
Asked my weapons instructor for ideas on this one today. I hesitate to repeat his answer, although he did get hit for it: "If it's a Japanese influence, it's probably about etiquette"...
His more serious comment was that many of the weapons kata were designed with defence against a sword in mind, and the Samurai weren't allowed to be left handed.
Asked my weapons instructor for ideas on this one today. I hesitate to repeat his answer, although he did get hit for it: "If it's a Japanese influence, it's probably about etiquette"...
His more serious comment was that many of the weapons kata were designed with defence against a sword in mind, and the Samurai weren't allowed to be left handed.
QUOTE
Samurai weren't allowed to be left handed.
Thread drift ahoy!!
Why? And what happened if they found themselves up against a left-handed foe? ( unlikely I know...)
Hi everyone,
I don't know if I too late to reply.
As well as having 6 taiyoku katas, I know that some kyokushin styles perform the kata left AND right. Forwards AND backwards, and each stepping technique with a spin.
So maybe back in the day you learnt the original way and you were expected to then explore the kata in its many variations.
Just a thought
I don't know if I too late to reply.
As well as having 6 taiyoku katas, I know that some kyokushin styles perform the kata left AND right. Forwards AND backwards, and each stepping technique with a spin.
So maybe back in the day you learnt the original way and you were expected to then explore the kata in its many variations.
Just a thought
The Taikyoku kata start with a move to the left for one simple reason IMO: they're modelled on the Pinan kata, which do the same.
No mystery, no magic. The real question of course is, why do the Pinan kata start with a move to the left. I don't really know why move to the left first, but it doesn't really matter, if you're designing a new kata you have to choose between left or right as the first move.
Mike
No mystery, no magic. The real question of course is, why do the Pinan kata start with a move to the left. I don't really know why move to the left first, but it doesn't really matter, if you're designing a new kata you have to choose between left or right as the first move.
Mike
I always considered it started to the left because most people are right handed so you could be defending against a right hand attack.
But then I know of some groups that practice off the left first and then the right because most people are right handed so they start with the left side for development - students pay more attention for the first few practices while they get the hang of what (techniques, combinations etc) they're doing.
Maybe they just flipped a coin and it came up tails?
Mick
But then I know of some groups that practice off the left first and then the right because most people are right handed so they start with the left side for development - students pay more attention for the first few practices while they get the hang of what (techniques, combinations etc) they're doing.
Maybe they just flipped a coin and it came up tails?
Mick
Where did you think of this? 
Maybe it has something to do with facing north?(i don't think so but,watevs)
Maybe the ppl that created it were going to say ''right lets get started'' but the students went right when the sensei said right?! Than the sensei got confused and said ''Go other way''
__________________________________________
whats the differnce between karate-do and karate? one end with o
Maybe it has something to do with facing north?(i don't think so but,watevs)
Maybe the ppl that created it were going to say ''right lets get started'' but the students went right when the sensei said right?! Than the sensei got confused and said ''Go other way''
__________________________________________
whats the differnce between karate-do and karate? one end with o
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