People often have trouble linking together modern kumite with the performance of kata. This is because the majority of clubs no longer look at tegumi. You may notice that "te gumi" is a reversal of another word "kumi te" (The k becomes a g when there is something in front of it). Tegumi is the grappling/wrestling they practiced on Okinawa. Imagine modern day kumite, but when the hikite hand is pulled back it contains a limb of the opponent. It also helps practice muchimi.

The reappearance of tegumi is primarily down to Patrick McCarthy hanshi. Has anyone else here ever had the pleasure of training with him? I really enjoy his seminars, and will be attending a weekend long one this year .

I am envious of your opportunity to train with Mr McCarthy.
Be grateful if you could post a report about it.

Of course The next seminar is in October. I'm really looking forward to it - although it looks like I might be staying in my camper with my instructor and another (male) black belt

Hi Angela

Yes, I've trained with PM a couple of times.

I've also been practicing various tegumi for a few years now. I wouldn't necessarily agree that they are essential to understanding kata, but I certainly do find them a useful tool. I don't go for the longer convuluted ones that PM developed, but I think the basic idea in the straight punch tegumi, round punch tegumi etc is very useful indeed.

In our dojo we've been playing random variations in which all manner of punches are used and also combined with grabs. I'm quite pleased with the way its coming along. Another drill I'm quite pleased with is to use tegumi as a vehicle to practice the various joint locks we use. The joint-locks then flow into take-downs which flow into pins. So the students get practice of a seemlessly flowing routine which incorporates strikes, joint-locks, take-downs and pins.

One point of note: I don't believe what we now call tegumi is the same wrestling practice as was used in Okinawa in the 19th century. It is my understanding that they are two entirely different things. The similarity is only in that PM chose the name tegumi for the drills he was teaching, ie. the same ones you've learned.

Mike

I think the current form of tegumi are possibly practice for the out and out grappling tegumi, in the same way the kihon is practice for kumite. I may be wrong tho

Hi Angela

But in the tegumi you've learned don't you generally start with a strike? It would therefore seem to be more relevant practice to striking style sparring than to a free exchange of grappling techniques. I'm afraid I have to stick with my initial assertion that modern day tegumi has nothing to do with the tegumi of old - they just happen to share the same name.

That doesn't in any way lessen the value of the modern tegumi drills IMO. Karateka would, I think, be far better off doing tegumi than practising the formal kumite drills found in most karate systems.

Mike

No not all tegumi start with a strike. For example the kake one is purely about teaching muchimi. Some are helping arm conditioning, some are about positioning, and sure some help with striking - but there is definitely a grappling element in there.

Fair point, tegumi can and does enable students to practice some grappling skills. But if it is all about preparation for old-style tegumi wrestling why does it contain any responses to strikes at all?

I'm sorry but I simply see no historical link between 19th century tegumi wrestling and 21st century tegumi flow drills. If you wish to state that you believe, in your opinion, that there is a link then I have no problem with that. But if you wish to assert it as a fact then you must provide some evidence of a link. In the likely absence of any relevant documentation from the 19th century, I suppose such evidence would have to be in the form of oral transmission through proven lineages of the Okinawan arts. Whilst I have every respect for PM, and whilst I see great value in some of the tegumi drills, I do not believe that he has presented sufficient evidence of such an historical link. I'm afraid that, until I see evidence of any such link, then I must remain a doubting thomas.

Mike

Ah, you see, every post I write has an invisible ninja disclaimer at the bottom, that everything I have written, unless it states otherwise, is just my opinion. Even if backed up by research it is research I have chosen to believe, and therefore will have a little Angela bias attached.

A further question would be though, do you not see that grappling can still involve strikes? In the same way that kata can incorporate locks and throws?

Well it is true that "grappling" arts include atemi (strikes) also.


Mick

Well that’s OK then. Its not for me to try and dictate anyone’s opinions. But I think we have a duty as martial artists and as teachers to be as clear as we can about what is an opinion and what is verifiable. Of course there is always a grey area between the two. If I tell a student something without stressing that it is just my opinion then it becomes a ‘fact’, whether I intended it to or not.



Of course, in an earlier post I did mention how I use tegumi to practice flowing seamlessly from bridging to striking to joint-locking to takedowns to pins. Striking and grappling are integral parts of self-defence, without the other each is incomplete.

As for locks and throws in kata, yes of course they are there. One could argue all day regarding the extent of their existence in kata but to deny their existence would be to fly in the face of the evidence.

Mike